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EGR valve issues

Tiny
KIAGOKING
  • MEMBER
  • 2006 CHRYSLER 300
  • 2.7L
  • V6
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 234,000 MILES
So when my friend gave me the car, the check engine light was on but it was not running rough, after a few days of driving it, four to five days, the car started shaking when at a red light, it takes a while to get up to speed, it smells way to much like gasoline, and at some points the rpm's will shoot up but the car wont advance much. Also, the check engine like makes a sound and flickers whenever I drive it. My question is, have I already messed this car up? I do not have the money to get the piece replaced right now and I want to continue to drive it at least another week. Please help.
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Sunday, February 3rd, 2019 AT 4:08 PM

35 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Hi and thanks for using 2CarPros.

Honestly, the symptoms can be caused by several different issues. The first thing I need you to do is have the computer scanned. If the check engine light is flashing, then the engine has a misfire. That needs attention before other problems occur. However, I need to try to determine what is causing the misfire. That is why I need the trouble codes.

With that being said, here is a quick video that shows how to scan the computer:

https://youtu.be/YV3TRZwer8k

Now I realize most people don't own a scanner. However, most parts stores will do it for free. Have this done and let me know the codes that are found. At that point, I can direct you on what to check, replace, fix. Without the codes, it becomes a guessing game.

Let me know what you find.

Take care,
Joe
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Sunday, February 3rd, 2019 AT 7:28 PM
Tiny
KIAGOKING
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Thank you so much for responding Joe. I actually went ahead and got that done, it was only one code: P0403.
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Sunday, February 3rd, 2019 AT 7:36 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Welcome back:

Okay, that deals only with the EGR. It is an electrical issue that can be caused by any of the following:

POSSIBLE CAUSES
- (Z904) EGR solenoid ground circuit open
- (K35) EGR solenoid control circuit shorted to battery voltage
- (K35) EGR solenoid control circuit shorted to ground
- (K35) EGR solenoid control circuit shorted to the (K900) sensor ground circuit
- (K35) EGR solenoid control circuit open
- EGR solenoid assembly
- PCM

_____________________________________

I don't know how comfortable checking things, but I am going to provide a diagnostic flow chart and links that show how to use the general tools that are required. Please don't be intimidated by the directions. If you have questions or need help, all you need to do is ask.

Here are the links:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-test-light-circuit-tester

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-voltmeter

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-wiring

Here are the diagnostics:

_____________________________________

Diagnostic test/you already did this and know the code is present. Jump to #2

1. ACTIVE DTC

Ignition on, engine not running.
With a scan tool, read DTCs.

Q: Is the DTC active at this time?

YES: Go To 2
NO: Refer to the INTERMITTENT CONDITION Diagnostic Procedure. See: Computers and Control Systems > Component Tests and General Diagnostics > Intermittent Condition
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. See: A L L Diagnostic Trouble Codes ( DTC ) > Verification Tests > Powertrain Verification Test

Picture 1

2. EGR SOLENOID ASSEMBLY

Turn the ignition off.
Disconnect the EGR Solenoid harness connector
Ignition on, engine not running.
Turn off all accessories.
Using a 12-volt test light connected to the (Z904) EGR Solenoid ground circuit, probe the (K34) EGR Solenoid Control circuit.
With a scan tool, actuate the EGR solenoid.

Q: Does the 12-volt test light flash on and off?

YES: Replace the EGR Solenoid Assembly. Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. See: A L L Diagnostic Trouble Codes ( DTC ) > Verification Tests > Powertrain Verification Test
NO: Go To 3

Picture 2

3. (Z904) EGR SOLENOID GROUND CIRCUIT OPEN

Turn the ignition off.
Disconnect the PCM harness connectors.
Using a 12-volt test light connected to the 12-volts, probe the (Z904) EGR Solenoid ground circuit in the EGR Solenoid harness connector.

Q: Does the test light illuminate brightly?

YES: Go To 4
NO: Repair the open in the (Z904) EGR Solenoid ground circuit. Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. See: A L L Diagnostic Trouble Codes ( DTC ) > Verification Tests > Powertrain Verification Test

Picture 3

4. (K35) EGR SOLENOID CONTROL CIRCUIT SHORTED TO BATTERY VOLTAGE

Ignition on, engine not running.
Measure the voltage on the (K35) EGR Solenoid Control circuit in the EGR Solenoid connector.

Q: Is the voltage above 1.0 volt?

YES: Repair the short to battery voltage in the (K35) EGR Solenoid Control circuit. Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. See: A L L Diagnostic Trouble Codes ( DTC ) > Verification Tests > Powertrain Verification Test
NO: Go To 5

Picture 4

5. (K35) EGR SOLENOID CONTROL CIRCUIT SHORTED TO GROUND

Turn the ignition off.
Measure the resistance between ground and the (K35) EGR Solenoid Control circuit in the EGR Solenoid harness connector.

Q: Is the resistance below 100 ohms?

YES: Repair the short to ground in the (K35) EGR Solenoid Control circuit. Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. See: A L L Diagnostic Trouble Codes ( DTC ) > Verification Tests > Powertrain Verification Test
NO: Go To 6

6. (K35) EGR SOLENOID CONTROL CIRCUIT SHORTED TO THE (K900) SENSOR GROUND CIRCUIT

Measure the resistance between the (K35) EGR Solenoid Control circuit and the (K900) Sensor ground circuit in the EGR Solenoid connector.

Q: Is the resistance below 5.0 ohms?

YES: Repair the short between the (K900) Sensor ground circuit and the (K35) EGR Solenoid Control circuit. Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. See: A L L Diagnostic Trouble Codes ( DTC ) > Verification Tests > Powertrain Verification Test
NO: Go To 7

Picture 5

7. (K35) EGR SOLENOID CONTROL CIRCUIT OPEN

CAUTION: Do not probe the PCM harness connectors. Probing the PCM harness connectors will damage the PCM terminals resulting in poor terminal to pin connection. Install Miller Special Tool #8815 to perform diagnosis.

Measure the resistance of the (K35) EGR Solenoid Control circuit from the EGR Solenoid harness connector to the appropriate terminal of special tool #8815.

Q: Is the resistance below 5.0 ohms?

YES: Go To 8
NO: Repair the open in the (K35) EGR Solenoid Control circuit. Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. See: A L L Diagnostic Trouble Codes ( DTC ) > Verification Tests > Powertrain Verification Test

8. PCM

NOTE: Before continuing, check the PCM harness connector terminals for corrosion, damage, or terminal push out. Repair as necessary.

Using the schematics as a guide, inspect the wire harness and connectors. Pay particular attention to all Power and Ground circuits.

Q: Were there any problems found?

YES: Repair as necessary. Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. See: A L L Diagnostic Trouble Codes ( DTC ) > Verification Tests > Powertrain Verification Test
NO: Replace and program the Powertrain Control Module. Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. See: A L L Diagnostic Trouble Codes ( DTC ) > Verification Tests > Powertrain Verification Test

_______________________________________________________

The pictures below show the connection on the EGR. They indicate what pins in the connector should have specific results based on different tests. If you don't feel comfortable doing this, I suggest the following:

Disconnect the EGR connector and inspect for damage to the wiring, connector, corrosion. Anything that looks like it needs fixed.

If it looks good, then I suggest removing the EGR and inspect it for excessive carbon build up and the tubes that connect it to the intake manifold for blockages.

Here are the directions for removal and replacement. The pictures, starting with number 6, correlate with these directions.

___________________________________

Let me know if this helps or if you have other questions.

Take care,
Joe
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Sunday, February 3rd, 2019 AT 8:52 PM
Tiny
KIAGOKING
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
I really do appreciate all of this information, I will let you know how it goes. Thank you again!
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Sunday, February 3rd, 2019 AT 8:54 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
You are welcome. Please let me know if you have other questions or need help. Honestly, if you never done it, it is intimidating, but if you have problems or need guidance, just ask.

Take care,

Joe
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Monday, February 4th, 2019 AT 5:48 PM
Tiny
TRA
  • MEMBER
  • 41 POSTS
  • 2006 CHRYSLER 300
  • 2.5L
  • V6
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 56,000 MILES
If the EGR tube is not completed connected at the base end where the 2 screws are (not the end that the nib goes into the manifold), can fire/flames come out of that hole when car is turned on?
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Friday, February 12th, 2021 AT 10:39 AM (Merged)
Tiny
AL514
  • MECHANIC
  • 4,688 POSTS
Hello, can I ask what's the reason for this question? Are you having flames come out of manifold hole where the EGR attaches. #2 bolts in this diagram. Any flames coming out into the engine compartment is very dangerous. Especially since the vapor purge valve is in that area. Can you explain a bit more about what's going on? And take a picture of EGR valve in it's current state. How is the car running? A clogged catalytic converter will overheat and this can be very dangerous as well. If there's extensive carbon build up in the egr system and there's too much heat from a clogged catalytic converter I can see the carbon build up starting to burn with that EGR tube disconnected due to oxygen entering.

If you think about it, that gives you something to burn (carbon), oxygen, and extreme heat from the converter. I'm asking these questions for your safety. I've seen vehicles flying down the highway with the catalytic converter glowing red hot from being clogged, and down the road the vehicle was on fire on the side of the highway. So any other information you can provide us will help. I can't give you the okay to drive a vehicle in that condition. I don't want to see the car become damaged more.
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Friday, February 12th, 2021 AT 10:39 AM (Merged)
Tiny
TRA
  • MEMBER
  • 41 POSTS
Like was saying in the question, it's not the end that goes into the manifold. It's the end that attaches to the car at the other end. I have been told by a supposed mechanic that "just air" goes through that tube. And even by 2CarPros mechanics, "fumes or exhaust can come out." So fumes are a certain kind of air, and I think of exhaust also like an air or smoke, like what comes out of your tailpipe.
I can't edit that pic, so if the "x" to close the pic comes through to your screen, it's that end at the top of the pic by the upper right corner. Nothing is going to be happening right now at this point on driving the car. So no danger. Just need to know the answer about the flames. The car was just misfiring; and 3 of the spark plugs and ignition coils are under the manifold. So it had to be removed. The base end of the tube was broken.
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Friday, February 12th, 2021 AT 10:39 AM (Merged)
Tiny
TRA
  • MEMBER
  • 41 POSTS
  • 2006 CHRYSLER 300
  • 2.7L
  • V6
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 64,000 MILES
Hello
Trying now to narrow down P0202 misfire, and what out of the 5 or so things one that cylinder can be causing it. I have changed the spark plug and the car is "Skipping" or running badly still upon starting(just sitting still). What little I can see the wire plug to the ignition coil looks fine and the heat shrink looks fine. Can tell what's happening deeper in the harness.

So, I swapped out the old ignition coil I had in another cylinder, bc I didn't really think it was bad. And I don't know if I had all the 3 codes I'm showing now that I found after borrowing an OBD2 tester from Auto Zone. I got the P0202 just from the dash. Now I have P2305(Ignition Coil 2 Secondary Circuit-Insufficient Ionization and P0113(Intake Air temp Sensor Circuit High). Maybe the dash only shows 1 at a time.

I swapped the ignition coils back out and still have the P2305. Not sure if I just need to erase that one and see if it comes back or not. Probably try that.

I also have tested the IAT w/multi-meter. So 1st question: W/it on 200K on OHMs setting, I get 11.6 and 11.8 when swapping around the leads btwn the 2 prongs more towards the top of the prongs. First I had one towards the base of 1 of the prongs to help it stay in place(bc I don't have alligator clips) and 1 at top of the other prong on 2 dif. Days(inside the house), they read 8 to 9.5. Are these too high, and does that mean the sensor is bad in some way? It does go down on the reading as it should when some heat is added near.

2. When I was told that the P0202 was general misfire, that's why I changed the sparky and swapped the coil, but if it is really a Fuel injector problem for real as the specific code says(circuit open), do you think Seaform cleaner is could be tried to see if it helps or don't bother?
And can the 202 be making the 113 show up?

Here are the details the OBD2 shows on the details about the P0202:
Fuel Sys 1 and 2-OL
Calc Load-47.8%
ECT 64(F)
All the STFTand LTFT B1's and 2's-0%
Eng RPM-1427
Veh Speed 0mph of course
MAP-22(inHg)
Spark Adv-16.0 degrees
TPS-14.5%
Run Time -4sec
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Friday, February 12th, 2021 AT 10:39 AM (Merged)
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,602 POSTS
The P0202 is for cylinder number two. I would try a new plug because the one that is in there can be defective/cracked and I would get a new coil. Then clear the codes to retry. Lease let us know what you find. We are interested to see what it is.
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Friday, February 12th, 2021 AT 10:39 AM (Merged)
Tiny
TRA
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  • 41 POSTS
Yep. Have changed the spark plug already. No new ignition coil yet. It started running worst after spark plug changed; Gap is good. But, then the new codes came up. You feel it may be more the coil than the fuel injector?
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Friday, February 12th, 2021 AT 10:39 AM (Merged)
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,602 POSTS
How did the plug look coming out? If it is white with no burn marks I would say fuel injector but it sounds more like a coil which have problems. Once one goes bad I would do them all if you are going to keep the car. There is an ignition capacitor please make sure that is connected. Here are diagrams below to help with the repair. Codes wont come up unless you drive it for a while. Let me know.
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Friday, February 12th, 2021 AT 10:39 AM (Merged)
Tiny
TRA
  • MEMBER
  • 41 POSTS
No not white at all, black. If you can find pictures of where that ignition capacitor is on a 2.7L engine, that would be great. That's the one I have not 3.5L.

Thanks very much. Very helpful.
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Friday, February 12th, 2021 AT 10:39 AM (Merged)
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,602 POSTS
It is the same as the third image in the post above. Here it is for your engine below.
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Friday, February 12th, 2021 AT 10:39 AM (Merged)
Tiny
MICHAEL WOODHULL
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
  • 2005 CHRYSLER 300
  • 3.5L
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 182,000 MILES
Had the EGR valve changed on my car listed above Limited and now it runs rough. Both gaskets were changed as well as the rubber seal on the EGR tube. Don't hear any air noise coming from the tube. Can't figure out what's going on with it now. Thank you.
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Friday, February 12th, 2021 AT 10:39 AM (Merged)
Tiny
TRA
  • MEMBER
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Brand new ignition coil and still doing same. More detail about what it is doing: When I start the car, it immediately acts like I'm holding down the pedal. But I don't touch the pedal to start it at all. Then while letting it run, the RPM needle goes up and down, up and down; it acts like the petal is being pumped. The again pedal is not being touched at all. Sounds/feels like it will cut off, and I hear some little bang or knock.
Could this have anything to do with the EGR tube being damaged or off somewhere at the opposite end from the intake manifold? It's plugged into the manifold fine. I'm not sure if the guys helping me take that off wrenched something there, because when I went to put it back on the tube was way down and pushed back a good bit. I didn't realize they had done that turn around on the manifold to get it off.
The person putting it back on owns a shop and seemed not to think anything was wrong with pulling it back up with slight steady pressure. Can't see the other end from the top.
What do think?

The capacitor is attached fine. Below is a picture I found from Rock Auto for how one on my car looks. Found it after the #6 coil on that row. Couldn't tell from those pictures above where that was. Didn't see anything on my car exactly like that. So, I never pulled on that too much so hopefully it's okay. Does anything become disconnected at the other end of those too easily? Wire looks okay. At the immediate end of the wires by the plug may have lost a cm of some insulation or heat shrink, but doesn't look frayed.
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Friday, February 12th, 2021 AT 10:39 AM (Merged)
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • MECHANIC
  • 52,797 POSTS
Good afternoon,

If it did not run rough before the replacement, then it sounds like you have a gasket leaking at the head. You should recheck the installation of the valve.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-an-engine-vacuum-gauge

Why did you replace the valve?

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-emission-control-systems-work

Roy

REMOVAL

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1. Disconnect negative battery cable.
2. Remove purge solenoid from bracket.

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3. Relocate the purge solenoid.

imageOpen In New TabZoom/Print

4. Unlock and disconnect the electrical connector from EGR valve.
5. Remove the wiper module.
6. Remove shock tower brace and relocate.
7. Remove the upper intake manifold.

imageOpen In New TabZoom/Print

8. EGR valve (2) and tube (1).

imageOpen In New TabZoom/Print

9. Remove tube bolts (1) to EGR valve (3).
10. Remove tube (1) from intake manifold.
11. When removing EGR upper tube assembly being careful not to drop the silicone rubber seals in the intake manifold. Clean gasket surfaces on the EGR valve. Note that any loose dirt can lodge between the pintle and the seat and cause valve leakage that will give a rough idle and depressed manifold vacuum.
12. Remove EGR valve mounting bolts (2).
13. Remove EGR valve from vehicle.
14. Clean mounting surface.
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Friday, February 12th, 2021 AT 10:39 AM (Merged)
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,602 POSTS
Can you please shoot a quick video with your phone so we can hear the noise? that would be great. You can upload it here with your response. It sounds like you may have low compression in # 2. here is a guide to help:
https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-engine-compression

Please run down this guide and report back.

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Friday, February 12th, 2021 AT 10:39 AM (Merged)
Tiny
MICHAEL WOODHULL
  • MEMBER
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The check engine light came on so I had it scanned and the code P0406 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Sensor A High Circuit is what came up. It didnt run rough before it was changed.
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Friday, February 12th, 2021 AT 10:39 AM (Merged)
Tiny
TRA
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Did video go?
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Friday, February 12th, 2021 AT 10:39 AM (Merged)

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