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Cranks briefly then stops

Tiny
TERMAXCO
  • MEMBER
  • 1987 CHEVROLET CELEBRITY
  • 3.5L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 80,000 MILES
Car listed above is front wheel drive. The starter on this car began to crank briefly and then stop. It got progressively worse until now.

it's every time now and engine won't start now. Starter was losing all power after a second or two; but, now starter will retract and keep spinning. Occasionally, it cranks more times than just one or two turns. Engine should start anyway on the longer cranks.
So, it "feels" like its fuel related that the engine won't start
overall.

But the unknown is, why does the starter kick out/shut down after a couple of normal turns?
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Wednesday, December 1st, 2021 AT 7:39 AM

8 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Hi,

You indicated, ", now starter will retract and keep spinning." If the starter is spinning and not turning the engine, it could be a few things. First, make sure it is tight.

Next, the starter Bendix (part of the solenoid) could be bad and not engage the gear to spin the engine.

Last, the teeth on the starter gear or flywheel are bad and no longer making contact.

If the starter is tight, then I would suggest removing it and inspecting it. Make sure none of the teeth on the flywheel or the starter are damaged. If they look good, take the starter to a parts store and ask them to bench test it to confirm if the Bendix is kicking the drive gear outward to engage it with the flywheel.

Here is a link that you can use to get started. It explains how to replace a starter.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-replace-a-starter-motor

The attachment below is from the manual and are for a 2.5L 4 cylinder. If that isn't correct, let me know.

Joe

See pic below.
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Wednesday, December 1st, 2021 AT 8:21 PM
Tiny
TERMAXCO
  • MEMBER
  • 54 POSTS
Thanks for the reply. The starter will initially engage and turn the flywheel for one to a few cranks (it varies but most times just one crank). It was then coming to a total shut off, but then it started to just retract and continue to spin after these initial good cranks on each try.
So, you are saying look to the starter, and that there is nothing else worked into the computer system to stop the starter from working maybe due to something else being wrong? Just want to clarify. Thanks!
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Friday, December 3rd, 2021 AT 2:21 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Hi,

No problem whatsoever. Here is how the starter works. There is constant 12v power straight from the battery to the starter (larger wire). There is a smaller wire on the starter referred to as the S terminal. The S terminal wire only gets 12v when the key is in the start position.

When the S terminal gets power, it actuated both the starter motor (powered via the larger wire) and the solenoid Bendix (the portion of the assembly that has the gear that kicks out, spins, and makes contact with the flywheel to spin the engine).

Since you said it would continue spinning but retract and just freely spin, that is what seems to be the problem (the solenoid/Bendix is bad).

If that is happening, then it's likely the starter itself. If you turn the key and nothing happens, you need to check power at the S terminal when the key is in the start position. If there is power, the starter is bad. If there isn't power, then we need to work backwards to see where it's lost. However, the free spinning indicates the S terminal is getting power.

If it doesn't respond at all, check the S terminal for power with the key in the start position. Here is a link that you may find helpful.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/starter-not-working-repair

I hope that makes sense. LOL Sometimes I write things and then question if it's understandable.

Let me know if that helps or if I can help in any way. If possible, let me know the outcome.

Take care,

Joe
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Friday, December 3rd, 2021 AT 6:07 PM
Tiny
TERMAXCO
  • MEMBER
  • 54 POSTS
Yes, your answer is very understandable - And correct. Thanks!

Outcome good:

Took solenoid apart and cleaned up the contacts; also, the starter and solenoid bench tested good in all respects. Haven't taken starter apart yet, but it seems to have been the 2 little nodules (on each side of the forked arm) that fit into the pulley groove of the starter Bendix shaft that push the starter gear into the flywheel per the solenoid/fulcrum - worn and still pushing the gear into flywheel but then, under the torque stress of the flywheel, allowing the Bendix pulley to slip back past the worn modules and thus, back away from flywheel while the starter kept turning. This explains why it progressively got worse as modules wore down more. Could not find a new fork for starter right away so I was going to weld the nodules back up; Then gave in and decided to just got a new starter and live with the guilt instead.

Thanks again!
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Monday, December 6th, 2021 AT 9:58 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Hi,

You are very welcome. I'm glad to know it's fixed. Please feel free to come back anytime in the future if you have questions.

Take care and I wish you and your family a Merry Christmas.

Joe
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Monday, December 6th, 2021 AT 5:47 PM
Tiny
TERMAXCO
  • MEMBER
  • 54 POSTS
Well, I'm back. Apparently there are 2 problems. The new starter seemed to be the solution, but now the Engine cranks good but began not starting sometimes.

Seems to be a fuel problem. Sometimes it starts fine though it has begun taking longer than normal for fuel and seems to be struggling for fuel. Sometimes it takes several tries in which it almost starts until it does start - seems to be not enough fuel.
Sometimes it does not start at all. Once it does start it runs fine for as long as you want which, is confusing.
It is getting visible gas spray into throttle body from top jets while cranking. Can hear fuel pump on gas tank pumping up before each start attempt (*used to not hear it pump up at all, now it pumps up each time for a few seconds).
The Manual says: 'computer decides starting fuel so don’t push throttle down; and, if do push it down, it will backfire out of throttle body †which it does do.' No convenient pressure check valve, so have not checked fuel pressure or anything else yet, except that it sprays gas as before and runs fine when it starts and fuel filter seems clean. Any thoughts? Thanks!
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Tuesday, December 28th, 2021 AT 8:23 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Hi,

It sounds like the fuel is getting to the engine and its likely ignition related. I have a favor to ask. Since we try to keep these threads specific to one topic to help others, I need you to copy and paste your question to a new post. I will watch for it and get back to you as quickly as possible.

Here is the link for posting new questions:

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/new

Again, I hope you understand. Also, hang in there. We'll figure it out together.

Take care,

Joe
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Tuesday, December 28th, 2021 AT 4:19 PM
Tiny
TERMAXCO
  • MEMBER
  • 54 POSTS
Sure, that makes sense!
Thank you
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Tuesday, December 28th, 2021 AT 6:15 PM

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