Transmission will not shift

ROBERUL

MEMBER
2001 CHRYSLER PT CRUISER
4 CYL
FWD
AUTOMATIC
109,000 MILES

I just bought this car. The speedometer does not work and the transmission will not shift up. I am getting a codes, p1698, p0500, p0601?

Saturday, August 8th, 2009 AT 9:29 PM

40 Replies

JACOBANDNICKOLAS

MECHANIC
109,867 POSTS

Here are what the codes mean:

PO1698 - No messages received from the electronic transmission control module or the Aisin transmission controller.

PO601 - Internal computer error!

PO500 - Have not heard from the speed sensor lately.

I would start by having the vehicle speed sensor replaced. It is much cheaper than the control module and chances are it is the problem.

Let me know what you find.

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Friday, June 22nd, 2018 AT 7:07 AM

CAVEMANSGAL13

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3 POSTS

Oh, and it is not throwing any codes.

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Friday, June 22nd, 2018 AT 7:09 AM

KEN L

MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
48,323 POSTS

It sounds like you have too different problem here can you post a new question for the over heating this will keep the subject matter clean. As far as the not shifting when you installed the engine was the torque converter all the way back? Here is a video to help you see what I am talking about:

https://youtu.be/ZC7xHVMKLRw

Please post your new question here, you must be logged in.

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/new

Let me know, Cheers, Ken

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Friday, June 22nd, 2018 AT 11:05 AM

JHPWELD

MEMBER
1 POST
2001 CHRYSLER PT CRUISER
4 CYL
2WD
AUTOMATIC
113,000 MILES

The check engine light comes on and then the transmission will not shift to higer gear

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Sunday, March 10th, 2019 AT 11:09 AM (Merged)

RASMATAZ

MECHANIC
75,992 POSTS

Check engine light:

Have the computer scanned for code/s-you have a problem within the engine management system that caused the CEL to turn on-This is your starting point of diagnosis, finding out what's going on.

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Sunday, March 10th, 2019 AT 11:09 AM (Merged)

JDBKNIFE

MEMBER
15 POSTS
2003 CHRYSLER PT CRUISER
2.0L
4 CYL
2WD
AUTOMATIC
150,000 MILES

I. My wife has an 03 PT Cruiser we bought new and that she absolutely loves, which means I have an ongoing problem problem. A while back the check engine light came on and it began stumbling under acceleration. It also got so that it would not up shift to the next gear at more than about 1/4 throttle until we let up on it then it shifted normally.

So.I did the "key dance" to get the codes and found the problem to be plugs. I replaced the plugs and wires while I was at it, started it, took it for a test and all was well. It accelerate smoothly and even shifted under heavy acceleration as it should have. She drove it a few times, the check engine light went out and all was well.

About a week or so later, we got in it to go somewhere and I noticed it was surging under acceleration. We got onto the interstate and up to speed, 70 MPH or so, for about 5 miles and the car began to sputter and slow down to the point that I thought it had died and pulled over to the emergency lane. It hadn't so we did a U-turn to get another vehicle. The car actually ran fine back to the house.

SO.I did the key dance again and this time there were NO CODES that showed up. So she has continued to drive it with no more problems. Until today, she complained again so I test drove it. It seems to be surging or stuttering at any constant speed. It accelerates well and normally, but surges at a constant throttle position. And the problem of not up shifting under heavy acceleration has returned. As long as you baby it. It stumbles, but shifts normally. Push it and it sounds like it will sling the hamsters right out of their treadmills before it would shift, but the miss goes away.

SO. Again I do the key dance and STILL no codes.

Have you encountered anything like this? I've considered everything from O2 sensors to plugged up Cat converter, but I THINK those things would throw a code. I'm kind of at a lose as to how to proceed. It IS a 11 year old car with 150,000 miles after all. However, we are in a position where we don't want to buy a new car for a few more months. ANY help would be a BIG help. Thank you.

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Sunday, March 10th, 2019 AT 11:09 AM (Merged)

CARADIODOC

MECHANIC
33,910 POSTS

What you described is typical of a plugged or collapsing pickup screen in the fuel tank. If you have a fuel pressure regulator on the fuel rail on the engine, the problem will be worst when the largest volume of fuel is being pumped, which is during coasting. The screen will usually stretch out again after the engine has been off a few minutes, but the problem will act up again within a few miles.

The fastest way to verify this is to drive with a fuel pressure gauge attached and hooked under the wiper arm. Since the fuel supply system isn't monitored, no fault codes will be set related to it.

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Sunday, March 10th, 2019 AT 11:09 AM (Merged)

JDBKNIFE

MEMBER
15 POSTS

Thanks for the quick response Caradiodoc.

That brings up something I didn't think about. If the pickup screen is mostly plugged or clogged, which in an 03 car burning ethanol "enhanced" fuel for 10 plus years, it is very conceivable that rust caused by the excess moisture ethanol attracts could do that. Is it possible the fuel filter could be the problem as well?

I just assumed that ANY fuel flow problems to the injectors would be monitored and throw a code. Even an intermittent problem. And I surely didn't consider that the flow could alter the filtering devices since most modern fuel pumps maintain a constant fuel pressure.

Where am I going wrong in my thinking?

And thanks again for the quick response. If we have to replace the little car now, we will have to trade it in. If I can keep it going for a few more months, I get to keep it and turn it into a toy. The wife loves it and it's the only way she will let me turn it into a rear wheel drive hot rod. ; )

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Sunday, March 10th, 2019 AT 11:09 AM (Merged)

JDBKNIFE

MEMBER
15 POSTS

Oh, and why would that cause the car not to up shift normally under heavy acceleration when it appears to be running well under heavy acceleration? Just a bit more than a little confusing for an old school hotroder?

But I WILL follow your suggestion and check the fuel pressure as soon as possible.

Thanks

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Sunday, March 10th, 2019 AT 11:09 AM (Merged)

CARADIODOC

MECHANIC
33,910 POSTS

I have to admit that I don't know which fuel system you have and I can't find the information from my normal sources. At issue is where the pressure regulator lives. My understanding is if it's in the tank, you do have constant pressure all the time, and the Engine Computer is programmed for that.

When the regulator is on the fuel rail on the engine, there's a vacuum hose going to it. That causes it to vary the fuel pressure according to manifold vacuum. You have two forces acting on a molecule of fuel sitting at the tip of the injector. Think of a person about to parachute out of a perfectly good airplane. There's two forces working on him too. The suction of the air flow, and the big guy behind him pushing him out! If the plane goes faster, there's more suction so the fellow pushing him doesn't have to push so hard. In the injector, when you're coasting, vacuum goes way up and pulls really hard on the fuel to pull it out of the injector. If fuel pressure remained constant, you'd have a seriously-rich condition during coasting, and lots of wasted fuel and excessive emissions. To prevent that, thanks to the vacuum hose hooked to the regulator, fuel pressure drops down a good ten or fifteen pounds.

This is where the secret part comes in. With the pressure regulator relaxed to maintain a lower pressure, it is easier for the fuel to get through it and go back to the tank through the return hose. THAT'S why fuel VOLUME goes way up during coasting. The volume going into the engine goes way down, but the volume flowing through the pickup screen and back to the tank goes way up. That's why a plugged screen will cause stalling when coasting, but not during acceleration or cruising. This has happened twice on my old rusty trusty '88 Grand Caravan. The first time it took me four hours to nurse it through all the road construction in Minneapolis, but once I made it to the open highway, it ran fine the next four hours to home.

The second time, which was less than a year ago, since I already knew what to suspect, I disconnected the vacuum hose from the regulator and plugged it, and the stalling stopped occurring. That is a dandy clue IF you already know what to suspect.

As far as the fuel filter, I have never solved a problem on a Chrysler product by replacing it. That can't be said for any other vehicle brand that I'm aware of, but at 253,000 miles, my filter would have still been original if it hadn't rusted through and started leaking.

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Sunday, March 10th, 2019 AT 11:09 AM (Merged)

JDBKNIFE

MEMBER
15 POSTS

Ok, ok, can you see, am I bleeding from the ears? LOL

Just kidding brother. That was pretty good. I think I actually understand it. The principles of vacuum part I get easy enough. Been putting vacuum canisters on hotrods with power brakes for years. So how it works on the regulator, I get.

That returning fuel to the pickup screen is kind of alchemy to me at the moment. But I suspect all will be revealed once I take the tank off and pull the fuel pump to replace the screen or pump or whatever I can/must to fix this. And it sounds like that is going to be the likely ultimate outcome from what you are suggesting.

What I am gathering is that Mopar, in a moment of sheer engineering brilliance, decided to run return fuel back through the same "pickup" porting for the fuel pump as is used to supply the fuel pump and it is that which is causing the restriction of the screen to become magnified at part throttle.

Seriously, has anyone got an aspirin?

Thanks and I'm going to see if I can find a vacuum hose going to a regulator for the injectors, pull and plug it and see how that effects the problem. I don't know, but I'd say you are right and there is one on the fuel rail of the PT Cruisers. There's flippin' little vacuum hoses running everywhere under the hood of that thing. LOL

But that would be a good quick check until I can get a pressure gauge installed and test it on the road as you suggested.

Thanks a ton Caradiodoc. That was a big help. Makes my brain hurt, but a big help. ; )

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Sunday, March 10th, 2019 AT 11:09 AM (Merged)

CARADIODOC

MECHANIC
33,910 POSTS

Actually, the return system isn't that involved. There's a small tank, or pot, in the middle of the gas tank. The pump and pickup screen sit inside that little tank. It only holds about a quart of fuel, but because it's so small, there's always fuel next to the screen when you go around a corner with an eighth tank of gas. The fuel can't run away from the pickup.

The return fuel dumps into that tank to keep it full. That part is easy to understand, but I just put a new tank and pump in my van a few weeks ago, and I had to dig out the service manual to read the description of operation, and I find it difficult to believe and understand. It said the flow of that fuel along the bottom of the little tank creates a low pressure area like the venturi in a carburetor, and that low pressure draws in fuel from the main tank. I didn't autopsy my old tank enough to see how that is designed, but it must work. Also, if you run out of gas, then pour in one gallon, you would think the filler tube would dump it into that little tank, but it can't. Mine dumps the fuel in the middle of the gas tank but a few inches in front of the little tank. How is it then that the pump will pump fuel and the engine will start after adding just one gallon? There's no flow from the return line to create that low pressure area to draw the fuel into the little tank. That must work too though, because otherwise you'd have to almost fill the tank to get the fuel level high enough to flow into the little tank.

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Sunday, March 10th, 2019 AT 11:09 AM (Merged)

JDBKNIFE

MEMBER
15 POSTS

ALL, very good questions brother. The pictures I've seen of the fuel pump assembly in the Cruiser's tank just shows the little round, screen covered inlet in the very bottom of the "slosh" tank. Like you say, unless there is a hole at the top of the little tank, I don't even see how a gallon of fuel spread across the bottom of the tank could overcome the air pressure and pass into the small tank period. Much less be picked up and pumped. And if there IS a hole, wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the thing and create the equivalent of a hole in the fuel pickup line?

The ONLY thing I can imagine is that the action of the pump, IF it can pump air, forcing the air through the fuel system creates a low pressure in the little slosh tank and allows the fuel to push up into it. BUT, that would mean that the volume of the fuel system, lines, fuel rail and the rest are equal in volume to the volume of the little tank?

Oh, man. Anyone got an aspirin? LOL

As you say, THAT is a LOT of ifs to be engineering into something, on purpose, that SHOULD be pretty straight forward and simple. Heck, racing fuel tanks ain't that freakin' complicated! ; )

At any rate, I will let you know what I find. I've pretty much made up my mind I'm going to pull the thing out this weekend and have a look, clean the tank and screen and try that. I may even install an access panel under the back seat while I'm at it in case I end up needing to replace the fuel pump it's self. Cause I'm just lazy like that. ; )

I really do appreciate you sticking with me on this brother. It's really informative and helpful in my thinking this through.

THANKS. Hopefully once this is solved, it will allow you to help someone else down the road.

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Sunday, March 10th, 2019 AT 11:09 AM (Merged)

JDBKNIFE

MEMBER
15 POSTS

Ok Caradiodoc, I removed the fuel pump this weekend. And MAN was that fun for a wore out ol' fat man. But I removed, inspected and cleaned what I could. Didn't find anything really obvious beside something that looked like ground black plastic in the bottom of that slosh tank.

The pickup screen inside that tank didn't APPEAR to be clogged or collapsed. Of course that doesn't mean anything given how fine the mesh is. I did use some air at low pressure to blow it out some just in case.

After putting it back together, it spun over about 2 times and fired right up. Idled smooth, so I cut it off and restarted it 3 more times before I let it idle till warm. All went perfectly, it got warm, the RPMs dropped slightly after running a couple minutes and remained steady.

So, the test drive. It doesn't seem to be missing/stuttering any more, but it STILL is down on power and instead of a quick surge at part throttle, the RPMs go up and down like you are slowly pumping the peddle slightly. All in all, the ONLY improvement is that the quick stutter seems to have gone and the speed/frequency of the surges seems to have slowed and become more pronounced. Huh? Weird!

By the way, STILL no codes when I do the key dance. And from your advice and other research I've done, the fuel pump is one of the few systems that is not monitored by the fault system. So, that makes sense. From what I've found, a bad pump/regulator may cause a false code for other systems such as the O2 sensors, but fuel pressure isn't monitored. Don't understand why not, but then I'm just an ol' redneck, not an automotive engineer. ; )

Long and short of it, unless you have any other suggestions based on my description, I'm going to order a fuel filter and replace it next weekend. IF it doesn't leave my wife stranded before then. If so, It will be sooner since she insist on driving it. ; )

Any further feedback you could give me would be greatly appreciated brother. The fact that my playing with the pump changed the way it drives without changing the "no code" circumstance leads me to believe there's no question that's the problem. But then, I'm subject to jumping to conclusions according to my wife. ; )

Thanks again Caradiodoc.

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Sunday, March 10th, 2019 AT 11:09 AM (Merged)

CARADIODOC

MECHANIC
33,910 POSTS

The only other words of wisdom I can offer are, first of all, if you have a fuel filter along the right frame rail, I have never seen a new one solve a running problem on a Chrysler product. The one on my '88 Grand Caravan daily driver would still be original if it hadn't started leaking from rust many years ago.

Second, my first strainer in the tank was seriously plugged with a reddish-colored mud over ten years ago. The second one, last summer, looked perfectly fine but a new one solved the stalling due to low fuel pressure after prolonged pulling a tandem axle enclosed trailer that's bigger than the van. Besides getting plugged with microscopic debris and mold that feeds on the ethanol in gas today, they can collapse and block the opening in the pickup tube. That usually doesn't show up for five to fifteen miles, then it will stretch back out after sitting with the engine off for about five miles.

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Sunday, March 10th, 2019 AT 11:09 AM (Merged)

JDBKNIFE

MEMBER
15 POSTS

Well, I changed the fuel filter, took her for a test drive and no joy. SAME DANG THING.

I'm kind of at a loss.

By the way, not sure it makes any difference, but I wrote that it's an '03 Cruiser and it's actually an '06. Don't know why I got that brain cramp, but I'm an ol' guy. So there IS that. LOL

At any rate, I'm lost. I was just sure the new pump would fix the problem. Especially after cleaning the old one last weekend had an effect on the stumbling. But the new one is still exhibiting that slow surge and loss of power at part throttle and failure to shift under heavy acceleration. And it still idles perfectly.

If I didn't know better, I'd say it was a computer problem. Actually, I DON'T know better. I don't have a clue what kinds of nightmares control modules can cause. And besides, I did the key dance again and still no fault code.

Now I'm wondering if the TPS or something is going bad and just not throwing a code. Yep, I'm grasping at straws. ; )

Caradiodoc, my friend. I've been building hot rods under shade trees for nearly 50 years. I've been buying new cars for nearly 40 years and the last mechanic, dealer or otherwise, I took a car to was a fuel injected 1972 Volkswagen wagon because I just didn't have time to spend adjusting the valves every time I changed the oil.

My friend, I am just about ready to break that string. GRRRRR!

I don't THINK it has a filter on the frame rail. Don't remember seeing one, but I'll check and change that if it does. As you say, with this stinking ethanol eating every rubber part on anything built before 2011, If It's there, it's probably FOBARed.

I also think I'll get a can of starting fluid and check for vacuum leaks, just to ease my mind since this started not long after I changed the plugs and wires. Don't see how it could cause this since vacuum leaks normally shows up at idle, but as I said, I'm grasping at straws. LOL

Anyway, that's the update. Still no joy!

And again, thanks for hanging with me on this. We live WAY out in the country and finding someone to bounce ideas off of is kind of, well. There just ain't nobody that doesn't tell me to shut up and take out the garbage. LOL

Thanks,

JD

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Sunday, March 10th, 2019 AT 11:09 AM (Merged)