Cranks no start

Tiny
JAY-DOUG
  • MEMBER
  • 2008 SATURN ASTRA
  • 1.8L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • MANUAL
  • 210,000 MILES
I have the vehicle listed above XR model. I just purchased this car and I am trying to get it running. It cranks over but no start. There is no fuel pressure or spark. I did a fuel pressure test off the fuel rail port and nothing happened. Also tested for spark and nothing happened. The ECM is throwing 2 codes, P2108 throttle actuator control module and one for a P0500 vehicle speed sensor malfunction. I checked over all wiring, grounds, fuses, etc, even changed out relays and fuses, all look good. I installed a new crankshaft position sensor and still no start, just cranks. Compression tested out good in all 4 cylinders. Battery tested out good. What do I need to look more into? A possible ECM (brain box) being bad? Hopefully not, lol. Any information is a huge help! Thanks!
Thursday, September 12th, 2019 AT 8:54 PM

7 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,716 POSTS
Welcome to 2CarPros.

Since you have no spark or fuel, the first thing I suspect is there is no signal from the ignition control module. If the ECM doesn't see ignition, it shuts down fuel.

I realize you replaced the crank sensor. If you have a live data scanner, confirm an RPM signal when cranking. It should be between 200 and 300 rpm.

Next, check fuse 30 in the under hood fuse box. It is the for both the ECM and ICM. See picture below. Make sure it isn't blown.

Here are a few links you may find helpful:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-a-car-fuse-works

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-a-car-fuse

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-test-light-circuit-tester

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-voltmeter

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-wiring

___________________

Let me know what you find.

Joe
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Friday, September 13th, 2019 AT 7:46 PM
Tiny
JAY-DOUG
  • MEMBER
  • 7 POSTS
Okay, so I checked fuse #30 under the hood fuse box and it checked out fine. I also hooked up a live data scanner and I got a reading around 245 rpms. I am going to replace the coil pack and go from there.
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Saturday, September 21st, 2019 AT 1:50 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,716 POSTS
Are the same codes still present or has anything different appeared?
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Saturday, September 21st, 2019 AT 10:00 PM
Tiny
JAY-DOUG
  • MEMBER
  • 7 POSTS
Same codes. Installed new coil pack still no spark and just cranks. About ready to give it up.
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Sunday, September 22nd, 2019 AT 3:29 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,716 POSTS
Welcome back:

Okay, that isn't good news. The coil you replaced, did it also include the ignition control module? Is there anything indicating an issue with the anti-theft system? I'm starting to question if the ECM has failed. That is what controls ignition.

I hate to ask this, but how did you go about checking for spark?

Joe
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Sunday, September 22nd, 2019 AT 5:12 PM
Tiny
JAY-DOUG
  • MEMBER
  • 7 POSTS
I checked for spark by pulling the coil pack out installing one plug into the coil pack then grounding it by putting a negative jumper cable wire to the spark plug and the other end on the negative battery terminal. I did not see spark after doing that. Yes the coil is built in with the ignition control module. Im guessing its the ecm too at this point. The ecm does store and delete codes and shows live data.
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Monday, September 23rd, 2019 AT 10:43 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,716 POSTS
Welcome back:

Okay, you should have seen spark. Before we condemn the ECM, here is a flow chart for checking the ECM. It explains what to check for from the ECM side as well. Based on what you have done, I feel confident you can do this. However, if you need help, let me know.

________________________________

2008 Saturn Astra L4-1.8L
Electronic Ignition (EI) System Diagnosis
Vehicle Powertrain Management Computers and Control Systems Testing and Inspection Component Tests and General Diagnostics Electronic Ignition (EI) System Diagnosis
ELECTRONIC IGNITION (EI) SYSTEM DIAGNOSIS
Electronic Ignition (EI) System Diagnosis

Diagnostic Instructions

* Perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle (See: Vehicle > Initial Inspection and Diagnostic Overview) prior to using this diagnostic procedure.
* Review Strategy Based Diagnosis (See: Vehicle > Initial Inspection and Diagnostic Overview) for an overview of the diagnostic approach.
* Diagnostic Procedure Instructions (See: Vehicle > Initial Inspection and Diagnostic Overview) provides an overview of each diagnostic category.

Circuit/System Description

The ignition system consists of one integrated and sealed ignition coil/module assembly for the 4 cylinders. The engine control module (ECM) controls the individual coils by transmitting timing pulses on the ignition control (IC) circuit of each ignition coil to enable a spark event. When the engine is running the ECM monitors each IC circuit for improper voltage levels. The ignition coil/module assembly has the following circuits:

* An ignition voltage circuit
* A ground
* An IC circuit for each coil

Diagnostic Aids

* A slight to moderate resistance in the ignition voltage circuit, can cause a misfire condition or a crank/no start concern.
* Extended engine cranking time, will foul the spark plugs with excessive fuel and cause a crank/no start condition.
* A slight to moderate resistance on any IC circuit can cause a misfire.

Reference Information
Schematic Reference

Engine Controls Schematics (See: Powertrain Management > Electrical)
Connector End View Reference

Component Connector End Views (See: Vehicle > Connector Views)
Electrical Information Reference

* Circuit Testing (See: Vehicle > Component Tests and General Diagnostics)
* Connector Repairs (See: Vehicle > Component Tests and General Diagnostics)
* Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections (See: Vehicle > Component Tests and General Diagnostics)
* Wiring Repairs (See: Vehicle > Component Tests and General Diagnostics)

DTC Type Reference

Powertrain Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Type Definitions (See: A L L Diagnostic Trouble Codes ( DTC ) > Diagnostic Trouble Code Descriptions)
Scan Tool Reference

Control Module References (See: Vehicle > Programming and Relearning) for scan tool information.

Circuit/System Verification

Important: Verify that the engine is in good mechanical condition before continuing with this diagnostic.

Verify the following conditions:

* The ignition coil/module assembly is correctly connected.
* The proper spark plug type.
* The proper spark plug gap and torque.
Refer to Ignition System Specifications (See: Ignition System > Mechanical) and Spark Plug Inspection (See: Spark Plug > Component Tests and General Diagnostics).

Circuit/System Testing

1. Ignition OFF, disconnect the harness connector at the ignition coil/module assembly.
2. Ignition OFF for 90 seconds, test for less than 5.0 ohms between the ground circuit terminal 1 and ground.

If greater than the specified range, test the ground circuit for an open/high resistance.

Important: If the ignition fuse is open, it will be necessary to test the spliced ignition circuits and the components for a short to ground.

3. Ignition ON, verify that a test lamp illuminates between the ignition circuit terminal 2 and ground.

If the test lamp does not illuminate, test the ignition circuit for a short to ground or an open/high resistance.

4. Ignition ON, verify that a test lamp does not illuminate between B+ and the affected IC circuit terminal listed below:

* IC 1 circuit: terminal 6
* IC 2 circuit: terminal 5
* IC 3 circuit: terminal 4
* IC 4 circuit: terminal 3

If the test lamp illuminates, test the IC circuit for a short to ground. If the circuit tests normal, replace the ECM.

5. Ignition OFF for 90 seconds, disconnect the ECM.
6. Test each IC circuit for less than 5.0 ohms between the ignition coil/module assembly harness connector and the ECM harness connector:

IC 1 circuit: terminal 6 and ECM connector X1, terminal 1 and X1, terminal 2.
IC 2 circuit: terminal 5 and ECM connector X1, terminal 17 and X1, terminal 18.
IC 3 circuit: terminal 4 and ECM connector X1, terminal 33 and X1, terminal 34.
IC 4 circuit: terminal 3 and ECM connector X1, terminal 49 and X1, terminal 50.

7. If the circuits test normal, replace the ignition coil/module assembly.

Repair Instructions

Ignition Coil Replacement (See: Ignition Coil > Removal and Replacement)
Control Module References (See: Vehicle > Programming and Relearning) for ECM replacement, setup, and programming

Repair Verification

If the customer concern was a flashing MIL, perform the following procedure:

1. Install any components that have been removed or replaced during diagnosis.
2. Perform any adjustments, programming or setup procedures that are required when a component is removed or replaced.
3. Clear the DTCs.
4. Turn OFF the ignition for 60 seconds.
5. If the repair was related to a DTC, duplicate the Conditions for Running the DTC and use the Freeze Frame/Failure Records, if applicable, in order to verify the DTC does not reset. If the DTC resets or another DTC is present, refer to the Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List - Vehicle (See: A L L Diagnostic Trouble Codes ( DTC ) > Diagnostic Trouble Code Descriptions) and perform the appropriate diagnostic procedure.
6. To verify that the performance of the catalytic converter has not been affected by the condition that set this DTC, perform the Repair Verification for DTC P0420. Refer to DTC P0420 (See: A L L Diagnostic Trouble Codes ( DTC ) > P Code Charts > P0420).

____________________________________________________

Let me know if this helps.

Joe
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Tuesday, September 24th, 2019 AT 5:42 PM

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