Cranks but no start

Tiny
BLAZ85
  • MEMBER
  • 2008 BUICK LA CROSSE
  • 3.8L
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 43,000 MILES
The car listed above is the CXL model. Vehicle belongs to my 95 year old mother-in-law who purchased it new, been garage kept and has only been serviced by Buick dealership

My wife was driving it today when it suddenly stopped running after driving maybe 3/8 mile. She tried restarting it but no success. I went to see if I could help. I could not get it to start either although the battery was spinning the engine vigorously. I checked to see if the fuel pump was running. It was, it would run for about 3 seconds like it should. Next I checked to see if it had spark. There was no spark at the coils. My thought was the Ignition Control Module (ICM) had failed. I removed it and went to O'Reilly's to get it tested. It failed their test so I purchased a new "Standard" brand module. I installed the new module and still no spark at the coils.

Then I noticed some "weird" things. First it had a "Check Engine" light on but my code reader could not retrieve the code. The reader would should that it was connected to CAN, display the battery voltage but state "No DTCs or Freeze frame data stored in computer. Memory". My reader is not the greatest but it has never failed to read either generic or ABS codes. Second, I noticed that when the engine was spinning vigorously while trying the start it, I had no signal to the tachometer, tachometer stayed at "0". Third and weirdest is that when trying to start it, the starter will continue to spin the engine for a full 2-3 seconds after the key has been turned back from "start" to "run'. I thought maybe the start or crank relay was sticking so I replaced it with another identical relay in the electrical box but no change. It continues to "run on" for 2-3 seconds.

My thoughts now are maybe the ECM has gone "south". What are your thoughts on this and what next step would you recommend?

Thanks in advance for your reply and for the help you have been to me in the past..

As an aside, I carried the new ICM back to O'Reilly's and had them test it. It failed but so did all the other new ones of different brands they tested. So much for their testing equipment. I have never had much confidence in their results and now have even less.. ..
Sunday, November 8th, 2020 AT 7:39 PM

5 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,772 POSTS
Hi,

If you have no RPM signal, chances are the crankshaft position sensor has failed. They can fail and not set a code. Here are the directions for replacing it. You will need to remove the harmonic balancer, so let me know if you need help. The attached pics correlate with the directions.

____________________________

2008 Buick LaCrosse V6-3.8L
Crankshaft Position Sensor Replacement
Vehicle Powertrain Management Sensors and Switches - Powertrain Management Sensors and Switches - Computers and Control Systems Crankshaft Position Sensor Service and Repair Removal and Replacement Crankshaft Position Sensor Replacement
CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR REPLACEMENT
Crankshaft Position Sensor Replacement

Removal Procedure

pic 1

1. Disconnect the negative battery cable. Refer to Battery Negative Cable Disconnection and Connection (L26) (See: Battery Cable > Removal and Replacement).
2. Raise and support the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle (See: Vehicle Lifting > Procedures > Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle).
3. Remove the crankshaft harmonic balancer. Refer to Crankshaft Balancer Replacement (See: Harmonic Balancer - Crankshaft Pulley > Removal and Replacement).
4. Disconnect the crankshaft position (CKP) sensor electrical connector.
5. Remove the CKP sensor shield (1). DO NOT use a pry bar.

Pic 2

6. Remove the CKP sensor studs.
7. Remove the CKP sensor.

Installation Procedure

pic 3

1. Install the CKP sensor.

Notice: Refer to Fastener Notice.

2. Install the CKP sensor studs.

Tighten the studs to 30 N.M (22 lb ft).

Pic 4

3. Install the CKP sensor shield (1).
4. Connect the CKP sensor electrical connector.
5. Install the crankshaft harmonic balancer. Refer to Crankshaft Balancer Replacement (See: Harmonic Balancer - Crankshaft Pulley > Removal and Replacement).
6. Lower the vehicle.
7. Connect the negative battery cable. Refer to Battery Negative Cable Disconnection and Connection (L26) (See: Battery Cable > Removal and Replacement).
8. Perform the crankshaft position system variation learn procedure. Refer to Crankshaft Position System Variation Learn (See: Vehicle > Programming and Relearning).

_________________

Let me know if this helps.

Take care,
Joe
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Monday, November 9th, 2020 AT 9:46 AM
Tiny
BLAZ85
  • MEMBER
  • 50 POSTS
Thanks for your quick reply. I understand about the crank position sensor but what has gotten me wondering is the fact it has a "check engine" light and I cannot retrieve the code with a code reader.(See details in first post) Also the starter continuing to spin for a few seconds after the key is turned back from "start" to "run" is strange. Could you comment on what you feel is causing these two discrepancies.
Thanks.
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Monday, November 9th, 2020 AT 1:24 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,772 POSTS
Hi,

The starter cranking is normal. The vehicle has a starter crank relay which will keep the engine cranking for a designated amount of time or until the engine starts.

Here is how it works (a bit technical) When the ignition switch is placed in the Start position a discrete 12 volts signal is supplied to the body control module (BCM) notifying it that the ignition is in the Start position. The BCM then sends a message to the engine control module (ECM)/powertrain control module (PCM) notifying it that CRANK has been requested. At the same time, the BCM is supplying 12 volts for the IGN 1 Relay/IGNITION MAIN PCM Relay closing it and supplying battery positive voltage for the CRANK Relay/STRTR Relay. The days when there were only a couple of wires and the driver had control have passed. LOL

The crankshaft position sensor may or may not set a trouble code. Because a crankshaft position sensor is related to engine speed, when they fail, it may not trigger a CEL light. This is because there are some things that can stop the crankshaft position sensor's signal that will have nothing to do with the sensor going bad such as running out of gas or stalling the engine when letting the clutch pedal out too quickly.

I hope that makes sense. Please feel free to let me know if you have other questions.

Take care,
Joe
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Monday, November 9th, 2020 AT 8:50 PM
Tiny
BLAZ85
  • MEMBER
  • 50 POSTS
Update: The Buick is back on the road. I decided to check the output of the Crankshaft Position Sensor at the Ignition Control Module (ICM) using my wire piercing probes, volt meter and hand turning the engine. I had neither the 3X nor the 18X signal. I checked for power to ICM with ignition on. I had a good ground but no 12V power. I checked the Ignition Fuse, 15A, No. 24 and it was blown. I replaced the fuse and the vehicle started but had a dead miss on cylinders 1 and 4. I changed position of two of the coils and then had a dead miss on cylinders 1, 4, 2 and 5. Yes, it will start and run on two cylinders but barely. I replaced the coil and the ICM and it ran flawlessly, Looks like something went "south" in the ICM and it got the fuse, the coil and the 1-4 circuit in the ICM.
Thanks so much for you help with this issue and for explaining to me how the modern "computer operated" starter works.
Thanks again and take care.
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Saturday, November 14th, 2020 AT 8:47 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,772 POSTS
Hi,

You are very welcome, and by the way, great job. That wasn't an easy one to diagnose.

I'm glad you got it fixed. Please feel free to come back anytime you have questions or need help. You are always welcome here.

Take care,
Joe
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Saturday, November 14th, 2020 AT 8:53 PM

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