Turns over but will not run

Hi,

First, make sure you hear the new fuel pump run for a couple seconds when you first turn the key on. Also, see if it starts for a couple seconds using starting fluid. If it does, then we know it is a fuel related issue. If it still doesn't start, and I have a feeling it won't, you need to check for ignition spark to the plugs and for fuel pressure. If the crank sensor is bad, it will shut down the fuel pump as well.

First, take a look through these links:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-a-crank-shaft-angle-sensor-works

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/symptoms-of-a-bad-crankshaft-sensor

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/crankshaft-angle-sensor-replacement

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Here are links to check fuel pressure and for spark to the plugs. Note, let me know what happens with the starting fluid before you go to the trouble of these tests.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-an-ignition-system

One last link This one helps identify causes of a crank no start condition.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-cranks-but-wont-start

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If you determine that the sensor I mentioned is bad, it is not located in a traditional location. It is facing the front of the vehicle on the side of the engine block. It is approximately two thirds back from the front of the engine and below the manifold.

Check these things and let me know what you find.

Joe

Joe, I have a few questions for you. I have not tried checking for spark yet, why? Because I am stubborn and feel it had to be fuel pump or crankshaft position sensor fro the symptoms it was giving out. After replacing both fuel filter and fuel pump, today I replaced the crankshaft position sensor, still does not start. When I replaced the fuel filter, is it possible I disturbed anything in the tank attached to the canister, and how would i use starting fluid on fuel injection?

I am at a total lose now. I will check for spark tomorrow, and am even going to use a mirror and a flashlight to try to see if I can see if anything came loose on or around the fuel filter. I did check the fuse for the fuel pump, but another question I had was if this car has a fuel pump relay?

Hi,

You can spray starting fluid into the throttle body to see if it starts. The fuel pump relay is located under the dash. See pic 1

As far as the fuel filter, since it is part of the level sensor, you could have bumped wiring or a connector. If you look at picture 2, is that the filter you are referring to? Do you hear the pump actuate at all?

Let me know.

Joe

Joe, yes that is the filter I am referring to, thank you for all your help. I will try those things this Saturday. Thanks again.

Joe, I tried the starter fluid with a buddy of mine, starts right up, runs when I keep my foot on the gas, but as soon as I release my foot it shuts off, does this give any indication as to what is wrong?

I did replace the crankshaft position sensor on Friday.

Joe, one thing did do is run the car with starter fluid and ran it ling enough to run a diagnostic check and p0500 speed sensor came up, could that be a reason it wont start?

No, if it ran on starting fluid, it isn't getting fuel. Have you checked fuel pressure? Also, here is a link that explains how to check injectors/injector pulse:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-a-fuel-injector

I attached the fuel pressure testing above in an earlier post. I did, however, attach two pics to help. The second one shows where the gauge gets attached.

Let me know what you find.

Joe

I will try the pressure test. Do I have to remove the intercooler, or supercharger to be able to get access to attach the tester?

Another thing I came by is online and YouTube shows a High Pressure Fuel Pump attached to engine on the supercharged minis. I am not seeing if mine has one. I am guessing it is under the super charger, inter-cooler?

Hi,

You have to remove the inter-cooler. Here are the directions. The picture attached correlates with the directions.

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2005 Mini Cooper S (R53) L4-1.6L SC (W11)
13 31 029 Checking Fuel Pump Delivery Pressure
Vehicle Powertrain Management Fuel Delivery and Air Induction Fuel Pump Fuel Pressure Testing and Inspection Component Tests and General Diagnostics 13 31 029 Checking Fuel Pump Delivery Pressure
13 31 029 CHECKING FUEL PUMP DELIVERY PRESSURE
Checking Fuel Pump Delivery Pressure

Turn off ignition.

On Cooper S remove intercooler.
- Protect the intercooler from damage.
- Intercooler sealing rings must always be installed dry, do not lubricate them.

- Remove intercooler cover retaining bolts.
- Remove intercooler cover.
- Remove sealing ring fixing bracket bolts and remove upper brackets.
- Remove intercooler cover mounting bracket bolts and remove brackets.
- Remove intercooler from right hand side.

Installing
- Check sealing rings for splits and cracks, replace as necessary.
- Ensure that intercooler sealing rings are correctly located.
- Install threaded sealing ring brackets at the bottom.

Torque:
- Intercooler cover to intercooler .................... 9 Nm
- Intercooler sealing ring bracket to sealing ring .................... 9 Nm
- Holding bracket to manifold .................... 9 Nm
- Supercharger outlet retaining bolts .................... 25 Nm
- Inlet manifold to intercooler pipe (left) .................... 16 Nm


CAUTION!
The fuel in the fuel lines is under pressure (approx. 3 bar)! Catch and dispose of escaping fuel.


pic 1


Remove fuel injector rail cover.
Remove dust cap (1) from measuring valve on fuel rail.

Start engine.

Measure fuel pressure.
Testing Pressure 3.0 ± 0.2 bar. (MINI Cooper)
Testing Pressure 3.5 ± 0.2 bar. (MINI Cooper S)


Switch off engine.

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As far as a high pressure pump, the only thing my manuals are showing on this year is the one in the fuel tank.

Let me know if this helps.

Joe

Joe, thank you for your response. I removed inter cooler and got to the fuel rail. Tried to read pressure, however there is non, including no fuel after attaching, unattaching fuel tester. I went to the filter canister and removed the fuel line on the top of canister and gas flowed out of that cap hole with the key in the on (but not cranking position). But no gas was present at fuel rail or at the testing valve. So at this point I am wondering if the fuel pressure regulator at the fuel rail is not working properly? Symptoms on line says if that is not working properly could cause the vehicle to not start , and or stall out, misfire, etc.

Okay, we are on the edge of identifying the problem. At least we now know why it won' t start. Now, when you remove the top of the canister and fuel flowed out, did it spray out with pressure? Also, when you say canister, are you referring to where you placed the fuel filter? Is it properly installed? If the fuel isn't under a lot of pressure when you remove it, cycle the key off and on. It should engage the pump for a second or so. Fuel should be under pressure. If it isn't, I suspect the pump is bad.

Let me know what you find.

Joe

Joe, the canister is the fuel filter canister I am referring to. Which was difficult to work with it having it to stay in the tank. Sunday what I did was release the hose on top and turned the key on. By the time I noticed it was flowing out of the top of canister and not the hose there was a ton of fuel flowing out. I say flowing out as it did not appear to be spraying out. I will try it one more time in the morning and really take notice. It is a new Delphi fuel pump. I even took the time to try the old one the weekend before last and still did not start. Would suck a new pump is bad right out of the box.

Joe, the canister is the fuel filter canister I am referring to. Which was difficult to work with it having it to stay in the tank. Sunday what I did was release the hose on top and turned the key on. By the time I noticed it was flowing out of the top of canister and not the hose there was a ton of fuel flowing out. I say flowing out as it did not appear to be spraying out. I will try it one more time in the morning and really take notice. It is a new delphi fuel pump. I even took the time to try the old one the werkend before last and still did not start. Would suck a new pump is bad right out of the box.

Hi,

It happens. If the pump is working and there is no fuel to the rail, something is blocking it. Reassemble the canister and if possible, get a piece of fuel line, a T, and splice the fuel pressure gauge into the system at that point to check pressure.

If you find proper pressure, disconnect the fuel supply at the rail and try blowing compressed air through the fuel line to see if it is blocked.

Let me know.
Joe

Joe, will giva a try , thank you.

Joe, just read your response again, on the filter install I watched a YouTube video on removing and replacing the filter. I replaced the those little o-rings on both top and bottom of the filter and the large o-ring in the main body and put it back together. One thing that i was wondering about is when you install the canister back in place that notch that lines it up, I have to twist the whole unit a quarter inch to get it in the grove then put the ring back on it to seal it. Just curious why it is like that. I am going to return the fuel pump. Bought it on Amazon so I will have to wait up to 7 days for a return of funds to card. Then I will pick another one up in town, just in the event that one is faulty will not have to wait up to a week to exchange. So may be a week from now before I can let you know if it was the pump or something else.

I have a feeling you are on the right track. Let me know how things turn out for you. Feel free to let me know if you have any questions.

Take care,
Joe

Joe, thank you very much, just waiting on Amazon now, I will let you know.

You are very welcome. I do have one other question You are sure the o-rings weren't damaged and were properly installed, correct? Also, let me know if you tried disconnecting both sides of the fuel supply to see if air flows through it.

Take care,


Joe

Joe, that was my first thought was to pop the fuel filter canister apart to make sure I had all of them in place and they were okay. I have not yet tried blowing air through the fuel line yet. Was gonna get a new pump and try that first. Just waiting on refund from Amazon to get one local, should be any time soon. I should have done that in the first place.

Before you reinstall a new pump, try blowing through the line to make sure there are no restrictions. I would hate to see you go through this again. Also, buying online is becoming really popular, so you are no different. Although a parts store may be a few dollars more, it's still easier if there is a problem. Trust me. I learned the hard way. LOL

Take care and when you get a chance, let me know.

Joe

Joe, that would be a good idea to make sure there is no line blockage. I will let you know when I have more news.

I will watch for your reply. Also, make sure the fuel line is disconnected at both ends.

Take care and good luck.
Joe

Thank you, will let you know.

Hi,

Your thread kicked back to active, so I grabbed it to see if you had any luck.

Let me know.
Joe

Joe, Still waiting to be refunded from Amazon, tracking shows they received the pump last Wednesday, but no credit to my account. I will let you know when I get a new pump to see if I get fuel to spray out of the filter more than a waterfall. Getting very anxious to get a new pump to get back to working on the coop. Thank you for keeping the thread going.

Not a problem. I didn't want to lose this one. LOL Take care and let me know when you get updates.

Joe

Joe, back to square one on this one. Finally got refunded by Amazon. Got a new pump from O'Rielly's and same thing is happening. Just a trickle of fuel from the output on the fuel filter. Same as the last pump. Now providing this pump is good (maybe even the last pump) not sure where to go from here. I have not touched blowing air through the fuel line thinking that it is pointless at this point sense there is little to no pressure. What (in my opinion) is not good on this car is that the fuel filter is a massive canister with a ton of stuff attached to it that you cannot really see or check out sense it all stays in the tank. I have no idea what could be wrong on the filter end of this car that could keep from letting it have full pressure. Wish they would have just put an in line little fuel filter on it. That being said I am all out of ideas at this point in time, almost a month later and no results after all the work. I am just ranting at this point. If you have any other ideas I am all ears.

Hi,

We'll figure this out. Hang in there. I really would like you to see if you can blow air through the supply hose. If you can, confirm there is 12v to the white / blue wire to the pump (at the pump). If there is, then I need you to check resistance in the brown wire which is ground. Basically, you are checking continuity to ground via the ohms setting on your multi meter. That will tell us if there is excessive resistance in the wire which could limit power flow.

I attached a pic below of the wiring. Check that. Here are a couple links you may find helpful:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-voltmeter

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-wiring

Also, check both fuses in the pic. I realize you are getting power, but if the control module fuse is blown, that could be an issue.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-a-car-fuse

Take care and let me know.
Joe

Joe, I am going to have the store replace the fuel pump for another just to totally rule out a bad pump. Will let you know after that and checking the wiring if it starts.

Sounds good. I will watch for your reply.

Take care and stay in touch.

Joe

Joe , sorry for the delay, it has been crazy in my town due to this virus scare. I replaced the fuel pump and now it comes out of the filter more than a waterfall. It cones out like a water hose but nowhere near 50lbs. Can there be an issue with anything on the filter side? I picked up a haynes manual to try to help with this issue and it says there is a sensor on the fuel filter side. I took the retaining ring off, I tried to see where the sensor was but it is super cramped in that area. Just wonder what that sensor is and what it does on the filter side. I am beginning to wonder if there is a problem there. I did remove the fuel line off the fuel rail, and blew thru the line from the filter line and that seems to be clear. That is where I am at right at this moment.

Have you put it together and rechecked pressure? As far as the filter, the only thing I can think of that can cause an issue is if one of the o-rings is not installed correctly.

Let me know.

Joe

Joe, after putting it all back together there is no fuel getting to the fuel rail to even show on gauge. I will attempt to take the filter apart and make sure all is well with the o-rings.

The only reason I ask about the filter is that there is some kind of electric device on the filter housing, a float on the filter housing, and another rod that looks like a float rod to goes somewhere towards back of gas tank. Problem is that I just can not tell if it is all the way it should be. It would be worth opening it up again just to make sure all is intact including all 3 o-rings.

Hi,

Something is blocking the fuel if you are getting nothing. I need you to check something for me. I need to know the build date of the vehicle because there are two different designs. I believe the rod you are referring to is the level sensor. I attached a picture. Tell me if that is what you are seeing.

Now, check on the door or door frame to see if you can locate a build date. Something is different between the two and looking through the directions, I can't tell exactly what it is.

Let me know.

Joe

Joe, looks as if the build date is 3/05 or March 2005. Looking at that drawing that is exactly it. Also on mine the float with the gauge contacts the float wire/metal rod points towards the passenger side of car and that level rod points to the back of gas tank. Just curious if it should match the drawing?