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2000 Saturn SL2 Brake Issue

Tiny
BEEBERZ
  • MEMBER
  • 2000 SATURN SL2
  • 110,000 MILES
Hi, I have a 2000 Saturn SL2 I recently bought used. I am having a brake issue. The car most likely sat around for a long time before I bought it. The brakes were serviced the week before I bought it, new front pads and rotors. I drive about 25 miles to and from work. In the morning the brakes work fine. In the afternoon on hot days there is a problem. The brake pedal gets firm and both front brakes feel like they are dragging/engaged when my foot is off the pedal. Both front rims are getting hot to the touch at the end of my ride, and I noticed that when I coast down hill I am slowing down. The back rims do not get hot.

I have replaced both front brake lines, both front brake calipers and flushed the master cylinder/front brake lines with new fluid. The problem has not changed. I am getting (what feels like) a good vacuum at the brake booster and the brake booster check valve is working properly. When I disconnect the vacuum line from the brake booster and plug it, I get a similar feeling firm brake pedal but the front brakes are releasing (note: I need to test this more on a hot afternoon).

I have a second Saturn SL2 and I am thinking of swapping the brake boosters to see if there is a difference. Do you think that this is a good idea?

I don't want to replace more parts without determining the source of the problem. How do I proceed with this?

Thanks for the help! Bill



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Wednesday, August 8th, 2012 AT 1:49 PM

13 Replies

Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,814 POSTS
Check to see if you have free play between pedal and booster push rod.
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Wednesday, August 8th, 2012 AT 2:16 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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Just to add to this one I really doubt its the brake booster causing the brakes to drag. Also of course the front rims are going to get warm the brakes are stoping the car. The front is also going to get hotter then the rear because they do 70 percent of the braking. Also if the rear brake shoes are not adjusted correctly then the fronts are doing even more then 70 pecent of the braking. Which usually the rear brakes are never adjusted correctly because no one ever adjusts them.I wouldnt say the front brakes are draging just because the front rims get warm.I have a 1999 saturn and my front rims get warm after driving and my brakes arent dragging.I would actually make sure there draging after driving out the car on jack stands and see if any of the wheels are dragging front and rear?
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Wednesday, August 8th, 2012 AT 3:19 PM
Tiny
BEEBERZ
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Just to be clear, am I checking the free play between the brake pedal and the push rod/brake switch inside the car or the free play between the push rod and the master cylinder inside the engine compartment, or both?

I understand that the front rims get warm from braking, but the rims are getting hot enough to burn you and I find that unusual. Also slowing down going downhill is a red flag for me. I will try to reproduce the issue and spin each wheel.
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Wednesday, August 8th, 2012 AT 6:18 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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I can even think of the last time I saw a brake booster cause the brakes to drag in the over 16yrs working for saturn. It far more likely if they were draging it would be the master cylinder causing it. Do this see if the brakes are dragging like I told you and if they are unbolt the master cylinder from the booster its only two 15mm nuts. If the dragging stops then you know its in the booster pedal area. If not you know its not in that area. The most common reason I have seen for brakes dragging is from someone putting the wring brake fluid in the master cylinder causing all the seals in the brake system to swell and trap fluid pressure.
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Wednesday, August 8th, 2012 AT 8:03 PM
Tiny
BEEBERZ
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Thanks! Okay, I loosened the brake light switch to make certain the pedal has full travel - it does. There is adequate free play between the pedal and the push rod. What do I do next?
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Saturday, August 11th, 2012 AT 1:19 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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Was the brake switch restricting the pedal return?
If yes, and you have free travel now, go for a test to see if the brakes drags.
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Saturday, August 11th, 2012 AT 3:06 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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You never checked to see if the wheels were dragging like I asked you too?If you find them dragging unbolt the master cylinder like I asked you too and pull it away from the brake booster. Theres only two 15mm nuts holding it on then see if the drgging goes away. Thats where you need to start also now you brake switch is going to be out of adjustment one way or another. The early saturns had the switches out of adjustment from the factory way before your car was made. Causing a slight drag not noticable but causing drums and rotors to warp.
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Saturday, August 11th, 2012 AT 5:25 PM
Tiny
BEEBERZ
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I let the car sit until the weekend as I didn't want to get stranded. I loosened the nuts on the master cylinder and put washers between the brake booster and the master cylinder. I've been driving the car for 2 days and there are no issues so far, the front rims are not heating up.

The washers are a bit thick and there is more pedal travel than I would like to feel, so I will look for thinner washers.
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Wednesday, August 15th, 2012 AT 5:26 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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So the problem is in the brake booster or brake pedal. Washers is not the answer. Please put the car on jack stands spin the wheels to feel the drag. Then unbolt the master see if the drag goes away?If it does then bolt it back up then unhook the rod from the brake booster to the brake pedal see if its still dragging?Even with washers it could still be causing the brakes to drag. Also I would never shim the master cylinder like that.
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Wednesday, August 15th, 2012 AT 6:48 PM
Tiny
BEEBERZ
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The car was put on stands. The master cylinder is bolted directly to the booster. The back wheels spin freely. The front wheels spin with some resistance. I can hear the brake pads contacting the rotor. The front wheels spin just less than one half revolution with one push.

I loosened the master cylinder nuts one turn and rechecked. The back wheels spin freely. The front wheels spin with some resistance. I can hear the brake pads contacting the rotor. The wheels spin between one half revolution and three quarters revolution with one push, slightly more than when the master cylinder is bolted tight.

The washers have been removed from between the master cylinder and the booster.

What is the next step here?
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Sunday, August 19th, 2012 AT 3:18 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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Completely unbolt the master cylinder and pull it away from the booster like I said before. Then check it if it feels a lot differnet bolt it back up to the booster. Then unhook the rod that goes from the booster to the brake pedal. If its the same as when it was unbolted and pulled away from booster the problem is in the brake pedal. If its the same as when it was bolted to the booster the problem is in the booster. There will be some drag in the front becasue there isnt a spring to pull the pads away from the rotor after steping on the brakes. In the rear there is a spring to pull the shoes away from the drums. In the last post you said the from brakes no longer dragged or overheated after you shimed the master cylinder to the booster. So it sounds like all you have to do is figure out if the problem is in the booster or the brake pedal.
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Sunday, August 19th, 2012 AT 3:37 PM
Tiny
BEEBERZ
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Saturntech9, thanks for the prompt response. I left the car on stands just in case you suggested more diagnostics. I removed the master cylinder completely, no change in wheel spin.

The rod from the booster to the brake pedal is incredibly hard to access for me. At this point it would be far, far easier for me to grind down the push rod from the engine side than to make an adjustment on the pedal side. Do you recommend that I go ahead and do this? Otherwise I will have to bring it in to a shop.
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Sunday, August 19th, 2012 AT 5:23 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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As far as getting that rod off the pedal its not that hard. There is a clip holding the rod onto the pedal. You just take a large flat blade screwdriver bend the end of the retaining clip away from the pin the rod slides over Then slide the clip off then the rod comes right off.I would never tell anyone to modify a brake part like that. If it is the booster the booster needs to be replaced.
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Sunday, August 19th, 2012 AT 9:57 PM

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