I got a 95 Dodge Neon 2

How did you check the timing?

How did you clean the injectors

Roy

Wow. We need to straighten out a bunch of stuff first.

When it doesn't turn over, the goal is to keep it that way so we can do some troubleshooting. If you get it to start, there's no defect to be found at that time. Next, be very specific on the symptoms and observations when it doesn't crank. Do you hear one single rather loud clunk from the starter each time you turn the ignition switch to "crank"? If you do, that is not related to the stalling problem. If you hear a very light click from the starter relay, or a rapid buzzing when you try to crank the engine, that could be due to discharged battery. Often enough electrons will migrate out of the plates over a few minutes to allow a short burst of cranking minutes later. You can also have a loose smaller positive battery cable where it bolts to the under-hood fuse box. That can kill the electrical power to the engine. Depending on the car model, you may also see the head lights are dim or won't turn on at all, then suddenly they come to life and the engine will crank fine and start.

"I replayed the fuel filter, pump, nothing"

Don't say "nothing" because that doesn't tell us what happened. Do you hear it run for one second after turning on the ignition switch? If so, it's working. You'll hear the hum. Next, except for diesel trucks, you will never solve a stalling problem on a Chrysler product by replacing the fuel filter. Unless they start leaking, they typically last the life of the car.

It's GM fuel pumps that often fail and cause stalling while you're driving. Chrysler pumps will fail to start up when they're going out but once they're running, they almost never quit while you're driving so you shouldn't even be wasting your time with the fuel supply system.

The battery can cause a failure to crank properly but it will rarely cause stalling. It is common to have worn brushes inside the alternator causing intermittent charging, but you would have seen the "Volts" gauge going down and the "battery" or "check gauges" light would turn on. You can do a quick test on the charging system by measuring the battery voltage. Engine off it will be 12.6 volts if it's fully-charged. It will read 12.2 volts if it's good but discharged. That's the time to suspect the alternator.

A carboned throttle body can cause idle speed or hesitation problems but not stalling while driving. They hardly ever cause a problem so don't waste your time with that.

Chrysler has less trouble with fuel injectors than probably any manufacturer in the world, and you know all four didn't fail at once. You can solve some running problems on GM products by running cleaners through them, but that won't solve a stalling problem either.

The automatic idle speed motor adjusts idle speed, that's all. In rare instances it can cause stalling as you pull up to a stop sign, but it isn't even in the picture when you have your foot on the gas pedal.

You didn't say this but "Took the battery to get it checked it passed" suggests you pulled it out of the car. Doing that erased any stored fault codes but along with all the new parts, it introduced a whole new bunch of variables that is going to complicate the diagnosis. To begin with, the Engine Computer lost its memory so among other things, it will not know "minimum throttle". It will not give you the nice idle flare-up to 1500 rpm when you start the engine, you will likely have to hold the gas pedal down 1/4" to get it to start and to keep it running, and it will likely stall when you slow down to a stop or shift into reverse. Don't go throwing a bunch more random parts at it for that. Meeting the conditions for the minimum throttle relearn to take place is terribly easy. You drive at highway speed with the engine warmed up, then coast for at least seven seconds without touching the pedals.

The throttle position sensor has about the least say in how much fuel goes into the engine and it will not cause a stalling-while-driving problem. It can cause a hesitation on acceleration but that defect would be detected by the Engine Computer, it would set a fault code, and turn on the Check Engine light.

You need a new friend. The camshaft timing is not the issue here, ... Most likely, but if it is, you checked it incorrectly. If the timing belt jumps one tooth, the Engine Computer will turn the Check Engine light on and the stored diagnostic fault code will be "cam and crank sync". At two teeth off the computer will shut the engine down to protect the valves. At that point the engine will not restart until the problem is fixed. Yours restarted and ran normally for a few minutes. Ask your friend how it could run normally if the timing belt had jumped? It's not going to magically jump back when it feels like it.

Where the problem comes in is you took the covers off and checked the relationship of the crankshaft sprocket to the camshaft sprocket(s). That is okay, but even though you found that to be correct, if you have the single cam engine, the valve timing can still be late and the computer will detect that and set the "cam and crank sync" code.

Torque converter? Come on. Chrysler was the first manufacturer to develop a torque converter that locked up at highway speeds to get better fuel mileage. That was in 1977. GM used to have a big problem with theirs failing to unlock when you slowed down, and that would cause stalling as you approached a stop sign. Chrysler never had that problem, but even if it did fail to unlock, you would never know that while you were at highway speed. Typically they lock up at anything over 45 miles per hour and in third or fourth gears. Even if something catastrophic broke inside the converter and it locked solid, the engine would still crank fine, then it would stall when you shifted to "Drive" or "reverse".

The most common cause of a stalling-while-driving problem is the camshaft position sensor. That, however, will not cause a failure to crank. Both of your problems can be related to a charging system problem and that's where I would start. Do not remove the alternator from the engine and cart it off to some auto parts store for testing. Professional load-testing needs to be done on the engine. You can do some preliminary tests with a digital voltmeter. With the engine running the battery voltage must be between 13.75 and 14.75 volts. If it is low, there are more tests we can do before assuming the alternator is defective.

Hi ASEMaster6371. Sorry for butting in. I was busy typing while you were posting.

No sweat my friend. You have a great night

Roy

I'd have to hear the logic that would lead someone to the torque converter.

Did you do the minimum throttle relearn? If so, do you get the idle flare-up to 1500 rpm when you start the engine? If you do, the relearn has taken place, the automatic idle speed motor is working, and the computer has control of it. NOW if you still have a stalling problem at least it is not idle-speed-related.

So are we pursuing a failure to crank problem or a stalling while driving problem? If both, and we are to assume they're related, I would be looking at the large bolt-on connections in the under-hood fuse box first. I CAN see how that would impact all the circuits involved.

Nope. You missed my last questions.

The noise you are probably hearing is the fuel pressure regulator. The ASD relay may turn on for one second and the fuel pump will run at the same time. You could also be hearing the Engine Computer running the automatic idle speed motor all the way closed, then back out a predetermined amount in preparation for starting later. Some computers also turn on briefly when they get voltage applied, then turn off.

Timing belts do not stretch enough to jump a tooth unless they are badly worn or whatever tensioning device is used fails or loosens.

The timing problem only applies to your single cam engine and only when there is a "cam and crank sync" fault code. If the light and code aren't present, and the engine runs normally when it runs, this doesn't apply:

To address that code you have to pull the sprocket away from the camshaft and inspect the dowel pin between them. If it is sheared off it will let the camshaft turn slightly. That makes the valve timing late while the timing mark on the sprocket is lined up perfectly. The camshaft position sensor detects that because it is at the other end of the camshaft, not by the sprocket.

When the camshaft turns on the sprocket the equivalent of one tooth is when that fault code will be set. At the equivalent of two teeth the computer will shut the engine down to protect the valves. It does that by turning off the ASD relay which removes power to the coil pack, injectors, alternator field, and fuel pump or pump relay. It usually doesn't get all the way to two teeth because the engine stopped running. In between one and two teeth off is a gray area that can cause intermittent running problems but you will still have that fault code. The code is the clue. The way the story usually unfolds is the owner had a Check Engine light but kept driving, and it seemed to run okay. Eventually it turned into intermittent cutting out, then to intermittent stalling. Finally when it gets to the mechanic, he often finds intermittent spark from just one of the two coils. If you monitor the voltage coming from the ASD relay during cranking, (dark green / orange wire at the coil pack or any injector), you will see the 12 volts pulse on and off randomly when it should be staying on steady. That should be done with a test light. Most digital voltmeters don't respond fast enough to show accurately what is going on.

There is a selection on Chrysler's scanner to relearn the relationship between the crankshaft position sensor and the camshaft position sensor when either have been replaced, or when that dowel pin is replaced, but I have never found that to be necessary. As soon as any of those parts are replaced, the computer relearns them as soon as you start the engine.

To meet the conditions to trigger the relearn, drive at highway speed with the engine warmed up, then coast for at least seven seconds without touching the pedals. The Engine Computer wants to see high intake manifold vacuum for seven seconds. It knows the only way that can occur is when you're coasting and your foot is off the gas pedal. That's when it takes a reading off the throttle position sensor and puts it in memory. From then on, anytime it sees that same voltage, it knows you aren't pressing the gas pedal and it has to be in control of idle speed.

No two throttle position sensors are alike so if you replace it, there's a 50 percent chance the voltage it will read at idle is lower than from the old sensor. As soon as that happens, the computer recognizes that new voltage and puts it in memory. 50 percent of the time the new sensor's lowest voltage is higher than the old sensor's and the computer will assume you have your foot on the gas pedal. It will leave idle speed up to you, and the result is stalling at stop signs. This is where too many new variables come into play when people randomly replace a lot of parts. Way too often they blame the computer, install a new one, then EXPECT it to have to relearn a bunch of stuff and they put up with running problems until that occurs. The best way to avoid that is to diagnose exactly which part is defective and replace just it.

There are times when we do have to just try a new part, especially with intermittent problems, but mechanics will only replace one part at a time, then drive the car. If it doesn't solve the problem, the proper thing to do is put the old part back in, then move on with the troubleshooting.

I'd have to see that sprocket, but it shouldn't be wobbling. I don't see how it could get bent, and the center bolt would have to be loose for it to be cocked on the camshaft. By that time you would hear all kinds of racket from it and the timing belt would slip off.

The stalling you described sounds exactly like the way camshaft position sensors and crankshaft position sensors commonly fail. They stop working from becoming heat-sensitive, then work again after they cool down about a half hour. Normally when they fail while you're driving the Engine Computer will detect it, set a fault code, and usually it will turn on the Check Engine light. The light must turn on when the problem detected could have an adverse affect on emissions. An engine that doesn't run can't pollute excessively, so the light might not turn on.

A code related to those sensors may not set just from cranking the engine. If the battery was disconnected or run dead, any codes would be erased, so if there is no code to direct you to a specific circuit, the next thing is to use a scanner to view live data. During cranking the two sensors will be listed as "present" or "no".

As an alternative, you can monitor the voltage on the dark green / orange wire going to the coil pack or any injector. If you have a steady 12 volts during cranking, the automatic shutdown relay has been turned on by the Engine Computer because it sees the signals from both sensors. When either sensor's signal is missing or erratic, you will see that 12 volts there for one second after turning on the ignition switch, but then during cranking it will either be missing or pulsing on and off randomly.

Sorry if I told you all that already. I'm following two other similar conversations and I get confused.

I've never seen one crack like that, but I haven't replaced many either. I suppose oil could get in there and affect the electronics. My preference would be to replace it but there's an even chance that will not solve the intermittent stalling.

Go back to the basics. First check for spark right after it stalls. Next, check if there's fuel pressure at the test port on the engine. Next, test for 12 volts during cranking on the dark green / orange wire at the coil pack or any injector. If it's missing, it's related to a missing signal from the cam or crank sensor. You might try switching the ASD relay with one of the other ones like it just in case it has burned contacts, but that would not be common.

If you can borrow a scanner to view live data, they usually have a record feature that you can activate while driving. You press the "record" button when the problem occurs, then you can replay that data slowly later to see what each sensor is doing. Since that data goes through the scanner's memory, the recording actually begins a few seconds before you pressed the button.