I am going to buy my very first car. Is it a good Idea to buy a Classic car?

I suspect you already had your mind made up when you came here. You were just hoping to find someone that would agree with you. Yes, you found one and a whole bunch that don't. You won't be happy until you have experienced the nightmare so go for it.

What part of the country are you in? Wrenchtech had me thinking about his comment about having to readjust automatic chokes for every season. I had never had to do that, and up here in Wisconsin we do have quite different seasons, but then it occurred to me that in the mid '70s our extremely intelligent politicians decided there would be less pollution if those chokes were fully open within three minutes of starting the engine. They weren't warmed up enough yet to run right. I know one person who bought a new '76 model van for his business, and every day in winter he would get about a mile down the road, then have to pull over and wait for the engine to get warm enough to run right. The dealer couldn't do anything to make it better, but someone else made some minor modifications after it was out of warranty. If there was one vehicle, there were surely others. That might be some of the experience Wrenchtech is drawing on.

Something else I think you're going to find is when you need help with a problem and you come here, for the older car someone will just tell you what to fix. For the newer car they're going to tell you how to diagnose it so YOU can figure out what to fix. What I'm trying to say is there's fewer parts in each system on the older cars so we usually know from experience exactly what is wrong. There's more parts on newer cars so we use our experience to guide you in diagnosing what is wrong.

Regardless which car you pick, be sure to do a substantial test drive first. Don't let anyone tell you that you just have to "wiggle this" or "ignore that". You should be able to drive any car you buy without doing things like that. It's real easy to overlook those details in the excitement of buying a car.

Consider having a third party inspect the car too. You might stop in at a few independent shops and ask about that before you even bring them a car to look at. That will save you trying to find a shop while you're on your test drive. I promote tire and alignment shops because they are accustomed to pulling off wheels to check brakes, and they know what to look for on steering and suspension systems. You can still drive with a rattle in the dash, but not when a suspension part breaks. You don't have to turn down a car that is going to need a brake job soon but you should know that up front. That can even work to your advantage. If normal repairs are needed soon, you can use that for bargaining on a price for the car. If the seller is competent to do the work himself, why didn't he do it before putting the car up for sale? If he offers to do the work, I would buy the car as is for a better price, then take it to the shop that did the inspection. In general, I feel that with the needed work that they find, they're expecting to never see you again, (knowing it's not your car yet), so they're more likely to give you an unbiased opinion.

Be sure to let the seller know you're going to have the car inspected so he doesn't panic when you're gone for a couple of hours. That's also when that extra little information comes out. "OH, ... It might need a new tail pipe". "OH, ... Did I mention that tiny little power steering fluid leak?" Things like that aren't necessarily deal breakers but you don't want to be surprised with those things later. The seller will usually share the bad points of the car when he knows they're going to be found out at the inspection anyhow. Every car has its issues. People either sell cars because of those issues or they know they're going to be trading their car so they stop fixing the issues that pop up.

There can also be problems the seller truly didn't know about so don't automatically be too hard on them. If you have it in writing from the inspection, that will be a dandy negotiating tool. You also don't have the experience yet to know that many people will try to take advantage of a first-time car buyer. Consider taking your father, uncle, or even a favorite teacher along, even if they don't know anything about cars. It's not the car you need them for. It's the negotiating.

Price is always negotiable so don't automatically accept the price on the "For Sale" sign. For you, it's what you can afford. For some of us, it's "value", meaning what do you have to give up so you can buy that item? If you can afford to eat out one night less per week, that's not a big deal. If you won't be able to pay the rent this month or buy groceries, that's a pretty big deal. Look at what you have to give up to get what you want.

You might even want to post the results of a test drive or inspection here before you buy anything.

There isn't a car built in the 70's that won't stall when it's cold without being heavily modified. I worked for Chrysler in the 70's and I can tell you that every single brand new car that we took off a car carrier could not be backed off the truck without stalling at least once and many of them multiple times. I had to find ways to modify these vehicles to satisfy customers. Me and the owner of the dealership used to often joke how that what was being built was a $5000 car with a 10 cent carburetor. The number one complaint I heard on all vehicles was the carburetor and stalling problems. Any one that wasn't around during that time and has spent their life driving computer controlled, fuel injected cars shouldn't invest a penny in a 70s vintage car without spending a lot of time driving one first. They should NEVER be an every day driver.

So what was the fix? My boss's van was a '76 Dodge. Previously he had a '71 Dodge with the same Carter carburetor and had no problems at all. My '78 Lebaron also ran fine since new. I have to assume it had to do with the choke and not the carburetor itself, but you tell me please. I also have had my Volare since new. That has a problem with fuel evaporating out of the float bowl overnight into the vapor canister. I know the fix for that and have the part but I never bothered to install it because I drive it so little. It just causes a long crank time first time in the day, then it's fine the rest of the day. That's a big tough six-cylinder though with a very different Holley carburetor.

You just got finished telling me how problem free those carbs were. If you haven't found it yet, that Holly has a hidden, adjustable power valve in it and the accelerator pump squirters have to be drilled out and enlarged after modifying the factory choke settings.

That was a Carter carburetor, (I'm pretty sure) on a 318 c.I. I never had the problems you're describing and like my boss had, but my cars were all older or newer. I just assumed Chrysler incorporated a fix into the later models. I never heard about those problems on GMs or Fords either. Doesn't mean they didn't have problems, just that I'm not aware of any.

The slant 6 had a Holley.

This debate could go on forever lol. If you were afraid of the big bad multi computer cars like cardiodoc has you worked up about stick with under the year 2000 car.I know even those have multi computers but there not as advanced or complicated as the newer ones. Also you live in a very easly accessed information time with the internet. Look at this site for instance you can ask questions about your car problems and we will help you with them. If your willing to listen and buy tools etc to make the repairs and diagnoses then whats the big deal.I will tell you this from my expernices from what I have seen in the car world and the world in general. Better to embrace new technologies then run and hide from them. If you try to run and hide from them they will run you down.I started working at the car dealers when I was 19 years old.I watched a lot of the older guys just try to skate by and try to ignore the new technologies. They fought trying to use the service stall to put in new calibrations in the computers. Fought trying to figure out if the computer was bad or it was another problem. Electrical problems baffled them and they had no respect for new younger techs coming in. The worse part was everytime I was team leader or shop foreman most of the time I was the youngest one. So trying to get them to listen or respect me as there boss was a challenge.I have never been afraid or try to hide from the new more complicated cars.I got stuck fixing all the cars no one took the time to fix or was able to figure out. It made me a lot better at fixing cars and figuring stuff out. So my advice to you and you can take the advice and do as you wish with it is to get a newer car not a classic car.I have owned classic cars in my day and made every day drivers out of them.I enjoy the newer cars much better for ever day drivers. Also this one is for cardiodoc whining about too many computers and how hard they are to fix. Iam a factory trained GM EV1 tech that is a fully electric car. It was the first full electric car available to the public lease only in 1997. Only available in california and airzona you may have heard of it. It started out as the GM impact as a prototype car. Then Gm told the engineers that designed it you have 6 months to make it a production car. So you could only imagine what bugs that car hard when it was put in the peoples hands. The manuals were pieced together. We trained for two weeks for the car and every night at my hotel room I had to replace atleast 10-15 pages in the repair manuals they gave us. The car was still basically a prototype very rough fit finish etc. It had 27 batteries 7 computers over 500 trouble codes. Something broke it could set 50 trouble in multiple computers. It had a left and right inside junction box with intergrated relays etc. Also to make things worse the dealer I worked for was close to the rail head where the cars came in on the trains and were stored. So I always had lots of the cars to work on the rail head wouldnt charge them so the batteries went dead and the high voltage relays opened so they wouldnt charge. So then drop the pack and replace all the batteries. Then hopefully the reason they didnt charge the car wasnt because there was another problem that opened the high voltage relay preventing charging. That was a lot of fun working on those cars not lol. So you can complain about too many computers blah blah blah.I wish could have had a taste of working on those cars.I had susan sommers car the one that played crissy on threes company she left the front of here car under a sprinkler. So everytime you stepped on the brake the horn would honk and the wipers would come on lol.

You missed my complaint completely over all of these forums. I have never once complained about not being able to fix computer-controlled cars. That's one of the main subjects I teach, and I've had very good results with students whose preferred learning style is hands-on with things they can see and touch, vs. Students who learn best by visualizing in their heads. Those are the people who are typically good at understanding electrical. I too have seen people wash out of the industry because they didn't keep up with technology, but my complaint isn't that technology; it's the COST of repairing something when it breaks. That's where I get frustrated. It's also the inappropriate use of technology that needlessly makes something more complicated than it has to be. Ever heard of "KISS"? "Keep it simple, stupid". Why do we need a Body Computer to run a delayed rear wiper? Anyone who has owned a '96 or newer Caravan has had it replaced for front wipers that don't work. Those wipers don't do anything that delayed wipers haven't done for 40 years, so why do they need a computer now? Tell the customer the benefit of that computer when you hand them the bill.

Did you know that cars have had electric horns for a really long time? I can understand adding on a remote keyless entry system for people who like that kind of stuff, but explain to me why Ford sees fit to use the horn switch to send a voltage to the most "intelligent" computer on the car, the instrument cluster, which interprets that signal, then sends a digital signal on the buss to the "FEM" (front electronic module), which interprets that signal, then turns on the horn relay. Explain to your customer why it's going to cost $800.00 to fix their dead horn. If that kind of use of technology really benefits the owner, why don't they involve three or four computers in blowing the horn?

I wouldn't even complain if these computers were as reliable as the old tank I'm typing on right now. I built it 12 years ago and have never had a problem, but look at the environment where computers live in cars. Road salt, rain, ice, summer heat. Wrenchtech is warning about electrical problems on old cars. How can you possibly expect newer cars to be more reliable when they have so much more wiring and connectors? It's a testament to the engineers that we don't see a lot more corroded connectors and splices but putting more of them on the car isn't going to make them less of a problem.

If you want appropriate use of technology, look at smart air bags, anti-lock brakes, lighter yet more rigid suspension systems, comfortable seats, computer-controlled ignition and fuel injection that makes the exhaust so clean you can put your mouth on the tail pipe and live to tell about it. But, ... When a car manufacturer tells a customer they can not go to a salvage yard to buy a replacement computer; that the only way to fix their car is by buying a new computer from them, AND, the software has to be installed at the dealer, I see red, and I'll warn people about that every chance I get. That doesn't mean I can't fix it. It means I don't want to pay for it. If you still choose to buy from that manufacturer, more power to you, but is it asking too much to go into the transaction prepared with some information? Why keep those details secret? How many Volkswagens get towed to the dealer to have computers unlocked because someone tried to replace their own battery?

GM had Theft Lok on their radios in the '90s that caused some problems for owners, but they had the choice to not activate it. Owners aren't given the choice anymore.

Chrysler decided a $15.00 backup light switch on the transmission that worked fine since the 60s was no longer acceptable. The switch is still on the transmission, but now it grounds a 5.0 volt signal to tell the Integrated Power Module to turn on a transistorized switching circuit to send current to the backup lights. Appropriate use of technology? When a friend's '06 truck had no backup lights, he needed a $750.00 computer, then he spent weeks arguing the new computer was defective. He wasn't allowed to return it because it had been plugged in! What a scam. I convinced him it really was a computer problem so he ordered a second one, and that fixed the problem. $1500.00 to fix the backup lights. Explain to him the benefit of that computer. In order to pass inspection, I built a circuit with one relay that used the original switch, and it worked fine. If it wouldn't have been for the 4wd lights that also didn't work, he wouldn't have even replaced that computer.

Now with all the computer reflashes, the manufacturers have found even more ways to suck money from unsuspecting owners. It makes perfect sense to have fewer computers in inventory, then install software tailored to that specific vehicle, but some manufacturers have added another layer of greed to the process, and THAT is where my anger comes from. Hyundai is the only manufacturer I'm aware of that allows anyone free access to their web site, and all the downloads are free. Thank you, Hyundai. Chrysler and Toyota allow anyone to flash their computers, except the Security system, for a subscription to their web site and $40.00 per download. Still reasonable, and any independent shop can do the work. There's only a few manufacturers who tie everything up and refuse to let other shops have access to the information except for three computers as mandated by the government because they directly affect emissions. Wrenchtech knows very well one of the manufacturers I'm referring to. Business practices like that only prove that the manufacturer puts profits ahead of their customers, and I choose to not do business with companies like that.

And I AM familiar with those 6,000 cars you're talking about that were only sold in California. Leased actually. We all heard the story way up here in Wisconsin about the multitude of owners who loved those cars and didn't want to give them up. Some people even tried hiding them and claimed they were stolen. With such huge public interest, wouldn't the smart thing be to ramp up production and service shops? Instead they decided it would cost too much to build the infrastructure to keep the cars on the road. I don't know much about those cars but it was obvious they had a product people wanted, so they cancelled production and crushed the cars already out there. Apparently they weren't smart enough to think about that infrastructure before they decided to lease the cars they did have. If they didn't want to support 6,000 wildly popular cars, what would it take TO want to support a product?

Just had a visit today from a former student who has been working at a Ford dealership. He is laughing at the electronics in their new cars. Some techies like the entertainment value, most customers tolerate it, but a lot of people run from those cars with all the distractions. Cars have already had reading lamps for drivers as well as passengers, (mine don't need a computer to turn on), but how long will it be before they start putting recliners in for drivers? If you have to be entertained, do it at home, not while driving. Well, okay, ... I like a nice tune now and then, but not when the distraction makes me a safety hazard.

If a car really needs a computer to do something that can't be done without one, fine; use a computer, but allow me to buy a used one without having to go to the dealer, and there's no reason a new one should cost twice as much as a new laptop computer. New mothe rboards cost around $100.00 and do a lot more than any car computer, but print a car manufacturer's name on it and the price quadruples because they know they have a captive audience.

I will admit that newer cars aren't found broken down on the side of the road anymore, but when I do come upon one, I personally get frustrated from not knowing what's wrong or being able to find out. I have many scanners and tools but I don't carry anything with me on short trips. What's the point? Even if I did diagnose something on the side of the road, I'm not going to have the parts to fix it. Ya gotta call the tow truck anyhow. Perhaps that's what you read when I said I can't fix something.

Build me a simple car that doesn't cost more to fix than the monthly loan payment and I'll consider owning it. Allow me to choose between new and used parts when I need one and I'll be grateful. And if that car costs less than the lunar lander that landed men on the moon, I would expect that it wouldn't have more computer technology than that lander had. Put common sense back into at least one model and I'll buy regardless who builds it.

With a warped philosophy like that, I am shocked that anyone would allow you to teach anything. After all, you do make a big point of telling everyone in every question how you WERE some kind of instructor. Thank God you weren't preaching that nonsense around anyone I know. It's bad enough that you are getting away with it here.

Cardiodoc never said you couldnt fix anything I said you were complaining about how hard it was to fix the newer cars. That was one of your arguments for the user to get a classic car. Also the GM EV1 was lease only in california and airzona which I mentioned. The reason it was lease only was so they could take them back anytime they wanted. So no one could say I want a million dollars if you want my car back. Also the cost was very expensive to lease it. They wanted 5,000 due at lease signing and 750 a month. If you already had leased a EV1 you had the option to lease a lead acid car for 134. A month which was relistic the range on the lead acid was 50-60 miles and the max range on the nickle metal battery I saw was about 140. But on the nickle metal the batteries got so hot from driving the batteries had to cool down for hours before it would start charging. So unless you had a nickle metal car the range was unpractical. But nickle metal hates the heat I saw a nickle metal car take well over 12hrs to charge because the batteries got so hot from driving. The lead acid cars hated the cold I was talking to a engineer that said in michigan he was driving one in the winter the his range gauge went from 50 miles to 3 miles in a couple of mins. One of the reasons they didnt continue making the cars was the cost of repairs gm lost well over billion dollars on that car. The price to replace all 26 batteries in the main battery back was about 7,000 dollars. You say oh that probally didnt happen that often.I replaced so many batteries one to three and all 26 a lot. The average repair when they came in was 800-1200. You were talking about over computers and say you wanted them to keep making that car lol. In 1997 they had 7 computers and over 500 codes it was a nightmare nit your average person could fix these cars. Saturns didnt have a body control module untill 2000 model year they were pretty low tesch when it came to that. Even the later ones wernt as bad as your describing these other cars.

Sorry. That's all I knew about those cars so I never brought the subject up. I DID know there was more to the story, just didn't know what.

Wrenchtech, instead of calling me warped, please be more specific, then allow me to have my own opinions. You have never agreed with one single thing I've said, and you're the only person here who actively expends energy in searching for a reason to find fault with every single reply I post. Other people have pointed that out too. Am I to embrace the high cost of replacement parts? Am I to tell independent shop owners to find a new line of work because some manufacturers are trying to cut them out of the business? Am I to rave about the benefits of having an HVAC computer control her system when it can't be reprogrammed because she doesn't have the money to make the AC system work? Not everyone can afford a new car every few years. Some single mothers trying to make a better life for her and her kid have to get to school or work in a 15-year-old car. What will people like that be driving in 15 years? Cars that require a new computer to fix something, IF it's still available and has to come from the dealer, and repairs will cost more than the car is worth.

Explain to me why adding a computer in the middle of a system that previously performed the exact same task without one makes logical sense. Just because you CAN doesn't make it better.

And don't knock my teaching until you've sat in on one of my classes. I was rated every year and was compared to a national average, and I consistently blew them out of the water. Student, supervisor, and employer satisfaction where the highest the school had ever seen for an automotive instructor. I HAD opinions but I didn't TEACH them, in fact I rarely brought them up. You seem to think only yours are right and everyone else is wrong if they don't agree with yours. I better call you to find out what color car I want next because I'm sure you won't approve of my choice. I'm too stupid to know what I like.

Every teacher knows you don't start with the most complicated circuit, system, or product, then work your way back to the simple parts that make it up. You always start with the simple, the basic, the easy-to-understand, then once that is understood, you build on that knowledge which can be applied to any car. You work your way up until you've added computers, new manufacturing techniques, and other new technology, but you have to understand what came before to understand why new is better. You can't appreciate the benefits of electronic fuel injection if that's all you've ever known. You won't appreciate electronic ignition if you aren't at least told about breaker points. Alternators have no value to a car owner unless you know why they're better than old DC generators. I don't have to teach those out-dated systems, but I do have to talk about them.

Wrenchtech, you whined about Chrysler putting the voltage regulator inside the Engine Computer. I can justify that with some sound reasoning. You don't snivel when GM puts the Body Computer inside the radio so the customer has to get that radio fixed at a much higher cost than buying an aftermarket replacement. At least I'm consistent in my complaints with unnecessary technology.

Everyone here has made some very good arguments about why a newer car is a better choice for a first-time car buyer. I can't argue with most of the comments if the goal is to drive the car. But my comments only pointed out to a person who said he wants to learn to do some of his own repairs that you want to start by learning the basics. The rest of you want to throw him to the wolves with high technology and the multitude of chances to do some real damage to the product he's trying to fix. Sure the older cars are less convenient, and they don't run as smoothly, but how many of you learned how to fix cars by starting out on the most complicated one out there? I'll guarantee every one of us who started out, started by sweeping floors and doing oil changes. No one starts out on the first day of their career changing the timing belt on an interference engine.

If this question had been asked by a girl who wants a safe car to go back and forth to college, I'd have recommended the newer cars, but all she's going to do is put gas in it. That's not the case here. Look at the person. Look at his goals. Look at the fact that he's even asking the question. All the rest of us have owned and driven old cars and new cars. If you like new technology, wonderful; you have a world of products to choose from. I am not comfortable in a new car with its unnecessary technology, and I'm not alone. I have no choice but to keep my '88 minivan on the road as long as possible. The mere fact that Drew is asking this question suggests he might share a few of my opinions so that's what I explained.

I came suspiciously close to rear-ending someone on the highway a few years ago because I looked down to stuff a CD into the slot. Now we have people on cell phones and not paying attention. Add in all the cool touch-screen stuff coming out now and one can only wonder if the person coming toward you knows you're on the road. When did being entertained become more important than driving responsibly, and when did it become acceptable to point out that I'm out of touch for putting common sense ahead of technology with no positive benefit?

You always have to get in the last 500 words so I'm going to let you have them. I'm done with this.

Just a footnote here, if anyo fyou ever worked in engineering for a few years you would understand why modules are used instead of relays. Alot of it is because of people wanting to hvae the dvd's, antilock brakes, and all theother toys. A battery can only hold so much power so they put a module in so it will use less voltage. Plus governtment regs for all the stuff that has to be put in like crash stuff and mileage as well as emissions, can't be done with a relay, they don't react fast enough.

I have met many engineers over the years that design all differnet parts of the car.I asked about all the crazy technology that goes into the cars. They told me every year the consumer expects something new in the car so they have to scramble to make it happen. There also competing againist all the other car manufactors. So there is no time to perfect it before its released so. From the begining of the first cars this has been happening. Look at the first fuel injection piece of junk and throw the goverment regulations emissions and safety standards in the mix perfect storm. Also throw in over bearing boss ceos etc that are pushing to make things happen. Also there always trying to refine things make them better reinvent the wheel so to speak. Thats never going to change this world is only becoming more advanced for the better or the worse. Heres a great example tvs used to last 20 or 30 years sometimes. But now they use a lot less power and have a unbelivable picture. Do they still last 20 or 30 years no do people by a tv for how long it lasts?Nope they look at the price and how the picture looks. There always looking for the next best thing everything cars cell phones etc. The consumer sets the trend for the market. Even the prescription drugs come out before even being tested properly. Then within 5 years of the new drug coming out you hear a informical about a law suit againist that drug killing people maming people one way or another.

You're in California. Have you looked into where or not this can can pass emissions inspection? That could be a real issue with a classic car.