Sorry to hear about your Caddy troubles, but look at how much of those problems were related to what was new technology at the time. How many GM cars have we seen with HVAC computers with the lights blinking on and off and the thing won't turn the heater on? My '88 Grand Caravan has air conditioning and a heater and not a single computer is needed to run it. I DO have to reach over and push a button, and if I feel warm or chilly, I'm smart enough to move a slide lever to change the temperature. The '96 Caravan, which I would never own, needs a computer to run all the heater controls because it is vitally important that we be able to blow 10 percent of the air from one place, 20 percent from another place, and 70 percent from somewhere else, all at the same time. If that's what technology has done for us, I have to roll my eyes. It's a car. It's winter. I expect to be cold at times. I've heard butt warmers in the seats are nice but how many times have I heard of people ordering new seat covers because the wires broke? I will never spend a penny repairing such a gimmick, and a cold butt is the last thing on my mind in winter. Build me a nose warmer and we'll talk.
What moronic engineer decided to hang a computer onto power windows? GM made them complicated enough with relays built into the switches. I'm probably biased because the power windows on three of my vehicles have never caused a problem but I can bet the first one that will is going to be the car with 4,200 miles on it because the regulator is made of cheap plastic pulleys and little wire "strings". I like power windows, but I guarantee the window regulators in the Grandville aren't going to break.
Water pumps fail WAY more often on newer cars than on old GM cars, and are often driven by the timing belt. With that rebuilt engine in the Grandville, the timing chain will last for many years. Even if it had the old cam sprocket with nylon teeth, and the chain jumped a few teeth, no valves would be damaged. We didn't even know at the time that there was such a ridiculously poor design as an "interference" engine.
I think we're overplaying the role of the carburetor in this story. So you hop in the car and have to press the gas pedal. If that is too big an ordeal, turning the ignition switch and pulling the door closed is probably also too much to ask of the driver. Sure I love my fuel injection, but remember those old boats from the '60s that got in the low 20s for fuel mileage and weighed twice as much as today's cars that seat four people? Carburetors can only be made perfectly efficient at idle and at high speed. In between the mixture is a compromise that must not be allowed to go lean or there'll be a stumble or hesitation. That means more than likely much of the time extra fuel is being wasted. Computer engine controls takes care of that so the mixture is exactly perfect at every speed, load, air temperature, etc. Why then if it's never wasting fuel, does a 2,000 pound Neon or Grand Am get worse fuel mileage than my '80 Volare that weights 4,000 pounds? That car gets consistently 28.3 in the summer. Now, to be fair, it drops to around 19 mpg in the winter for those first two winters I drove it, but for half of those trips it wasn't warmed up yet. I often wonder what that car would get if it had electronic fuel injection. Logic dictates mileage would go up, but then logic also suggests the Neon pile should get at least twice the fuel mileage that it does.
How much trouble have we ever heard about with GM distributors? None. How many people are writing in here who have bad crankshaft position sensors. Bunches. How many times every week are we telling people that "fault codes never say to replace parts; they just indicate the circuit that needs further diagnosis"?
Bad switches? ANY ignition switch on any car in the 70s will cause fewer problems than on newer cars. The old car show swap meets are full of new-old-stock switches because nobody is buying them. Nobody needs them. This is probably more of a Chrysler thing because GM builds about 80 percent of their own parts and buys the rest from other suppliers. Chrysler buys about 80 percent of their parts from other companies and they're constantly squeezing them to build them cheaper. The result is intermittent problems and switches that melt. How many garage fires have we heard about started by newer Ford suvs? How about the one caught on camera in a company parking lot that started on fire four hours after it was parked there? Nobody even knows how to change the ignition switch on my Challenger because no one has ever had to do one. Corroded door switches have to be sanded clean about once every ten years. How many dozens of newer minivan sliding door switches have I modified so the "automatic adjusting feature" can no longer over-adjust and cause problems?
These are all nit-picky things, but they're the types of things we see over and over. It doesn't matter if this is "brother Drew's" first car. If he can't fix the simple things on a classic, he sure as heck isn't going to fix anything that is more complicated with all the silly computers hanging onto every conceivable part of the newer car. Both cars are going to need repairs. How important is it that you can replace parts yourself, they're relatively inexpensive, they have lots of interchangeability, and are easy to find? Is it more important that your favorite mechanic is experienced on the newer models, knows how to diagnose and repair them, and has access to accurate service information? How important is handling and response? Do you drive mostly on the highway where quick steering maneuvers aren't so common? Is parking an issue? With an old car you can shove other cars out of your way and "make" a parking spot. With little cars you don't have to.
I know people today have to be entertained every waking hour, but when in a car, a simple radio is sufficient. Your job is driving, not relaxing. GM had a 100 percent failure rate with their cd players in the '90s. They saw fit to stop allowing us to buy radio service manuals and parts, so it's guaranteed getting the original cd player fixed will cost a lot more than buying an aftermarket replacement from Best Buy. Chrysler has three radio suppliers and for one of them, I have never run into or heard of a bad cd laser in over 20 years of fixing radios for dealers around my state. If Mitsubishi can do it, why can't other companies?
All of the talk about replacement parts is also a non-issue. If breaker points are a concern, upgrade to GM's HEI distributor. It's a dandy system and it will drop right in.
I think "reliability" means different things to many of us. To me it means can I fix it on the side of the road so I don't have to walk home? To some people it just means "do I have to fix it"? I can still drive with a leaking mechanical fuel pump on my Challenger or Volare. There's not much chance of getting home with a failed in-tank electric fuel pump on my five newer cars and vans. Mechanical pump: $18.00; one hour to change. Electric pump: at least $100.00, and a lot more than an hour to replace it.
Keep in mind too that if you've ever worked in a dealership, what are you mostly working on? New cars still under warranty. My perception is all new cars have problems because that's all I saw was new cars. We did get the occasional older car but thanks to lots of previous experience, diagnosis and repairs were real easy. Drew hasn't really said that he wants to be a mechanic. He just said he doesn't know much about cars yet. The same can be said about 95 percent of the driving public. Why do you think we have such a hard time convincing people they need that expensive repair, and why do so many people assume we're ripping them off? They know more about their bodies so they don't assume their doctors are fraudulent. If someone desires to learn about their car and do simple repairs, what would you have them start with, a car with windows, wipers, fuel and ignition systems, brakes, steering, and tires, or a car with all those things with computers added in for good measure, and packed into places much harder to access?
Finding parts is not an issue. Finding parts for newer cars is often an expensive issue. Chalk one up for old cars. Brakes are not an issue. Every manufacture spent lots of time and research to build a carefully-balanced system capable of stopping that car. Every brake system can lock up the wheels and make the tires skid. You can't really do better than that. Newer cars with anti-lock brakes offer a real benefit but it depends a lot on the system and vehicle. Drive a Caprice Classic with the Bendix-9 system, typically found in police cars. Then drive a Dodge Dynasty with the Bendix-10 system. The difference in systems is insignificant but with the Caprice Classic, you go and go and go, and they find you in the next county before the car finally stops, ... BUT, you maintained steering control which is the sole purpose of anti-lock brakes. With the Dynasty, you still maintain steering control but you'll tear the seat belts off the hinges. You wouldn't believe how fast the car stops. So, which is better? My vote is for the newer car with anti-lock brakes, but you wouldn't agree if all you ever drove was the Caprice Classic. By the way, Chrysler offered anti-lock brakes on the '69 Imperial and from what I've been told, that was nothing to be proud of. My feeling is brakes is one of the systems the engineers haven't messed up too badly on newer cars, but in the '70s, they worked just fine, so it's a horse apiece.
Steering and suspension is hard to compare because the cars are so different. A 4,000 pound hunk of steel will never respond as quickly as a 2,000 pound toy with styrofoam bumpers, (that's not sarcasm), and plastic bumper covers. Old cars rode smoother because the weight absorbed much of the road bumps. New cars ride smoother because thanks in part to computer-aided-design, steering and suspension systems can be tweaked and tuned for the best performance. Unfortunately, some manufacturers care more about selling new cars than how long their tires last after you got suckered into buying it, (are you listening, Ford?), So they tip their tires to weird angles so they ride smoother than other brands of small cars. They just don't tell you that front tires last 15,000 miles, then they're chewed to shreds on the outer edges. The Grandville has more parts in the steering and suspension systems, it's a heavier system that will hold up better to pot holes, and all parts can be replaced by a careful do-it-yourselfer. About half of the parts can be replaced without the need for an alignment after. Newer cars have just as many worn steering parts but many are not really suited for do-it-yourselfer replacement. Ball joints for every single one of my cars and minivans cost $30.00 or considerably less. Ball joints for many newer cars cost over $100.00 because they're built in as part of the control arm. Saves manufacturing cost but costs you more in repairs. What's more important to you? My vote is for the newer car's steering and suspension, but I have the tools and experience to make any needed repairs. If you have to pay someone else to do work you would rather be able to do yourself, go with the older cars. Until just a few years ago most newer trucks had steering and suspension systems similar to '70s cars, and people were buying them like crazy so they must be satisfied with the handling and response. I don't want my cars to feel like a truck, but I'm quite satisfied to drive a truck that doesn't feel like a car.
One point no one has mentioned is noise. You're going to hear every little thing in a newer car because they are very quiet. You won't hear the wind noise from air flowing over the side mirrors and wiper arms on older cars, ... Because it's drowned out by all the other noise! You can talk in a normal voice with your passenger in the newer car. Go with the older car if your girlfriend is always angry with you! She won't hear you mutter under your breath.
Some people got sick from head liners in Honda minivans. Some people say vinyl seat covers give off toxic fumes, and there's other reasons we don't see vinyl seat covers anymore. I prefer cloth anyhow.
Are you able to reach up and flip the day / night lever on the mirror when YOU want it dimmed, or do you need the help of a computer to decide when you want it dimmed?
Safety is a stunner. We all believed older, heavier cars were safer because of all the weight, and they might be the "winner" in a crash with something half the weight, but I saw a video clip of a comparison between about a '58 or '59 Chevy compared to a little puddle-jumper car, and the newer car won easily. More people are dying today in car crashes but a REAL lot more people are driving today and for longer distances and they're going a lot faster. Anti-lock brakes help you avoid some crashes. Air bags handle most of what you didn't avoid. Old cars relied on brute strength, but they did have primitive crumple zones. Look at the odd, "unnecessary" dents and curves in the frames. New cars have more sophisticated crush zones, and more technology and research has gone into designing for safety. The engine lifting bracket on the back of a Dodge Cummins diesel engine is unbolted and flipped over upside down after it's installed so in a crash that pushes the engine back, the bracket won't shove the wiper motor into the middle front seat passenger's face. That's the one tidbit of information I know. Every newer car has hundreds of little things like that which we never learn about. For safety, I'd have to vote for a newer car, but there are exceptions. I would not feel unsafe in the Grandville.
So there's my opinions. Your decision depends on what characteristics of car ownership are most important to you. Anyone can own a newer car and be one of the crowd. Not everyone can own an old car or appreciate the nostalgia. Not many people are going to stop you on the sidewalk and strike up a conversation about your Neon, Grand Am, or Escort.
Keep in mind too that you're going to pay more for a newer car, and as you make those monthly payments, the value will be going down rapidly. There's little chance you're going to lose money on the Grandville should you decide to sell it.
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Friday, April 6th, 2012 AT 6:29 PM
