Wiring schematics needed

Tiny
FRANK REID
  • MEMBER
  • 1977 JEEP CJ5
  • 5.9L
  • V8
  • 4WD
  • MANUAL
  • 100,000 MILES
To begin with my vehicle would crank if you jumped it off. It just wasn't charging the battery, but if you disconnected the battery cable it would shut off. I drove it to a shop bout 20 miles after a guy " helped me " wire it up correctly it just turns over but won't start. I need help with wiring diagrams. It's got a 360 in it I need to know how to completely rewire the alternator. Ignition control module. Coil. And distributor. I also am not good at wiring schematics. It gives me a headache just looking at them. Any help I can get would be great.
Saturday, August 3rd, 2019 AT 5:45 PM

25 Replies

Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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What type of ignition do you have? (Motorcraft, Prestolite, etc.)

The Medic
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Sunday, August 4th, 2019 AT 7:49 PM
Tiny
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I'm guessing Prestolite the wire color matches most diagrams I've been looking at. I got it to crank but it still doesn't charge the battery. I had to put a new ECM on it and it fired right up I need to know how to wire up the voltage regulator now I guess. Sorry for the late response.
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Monday, August 5th, 2019 AT 5:02 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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Just want to see what we are looking at!

Can you remove the breather, lay your hood against the windshield?

Take a few left side, right side, overhead and well lit good pictures and post them?

You say it will run? We will get you charging again! This should not be a hard task.

I have some good, colored the wires myself, diagrams!

I too, have a 1977 CJ-5, he has a 258 6 cylinder now with a 4 barrel 390 Holley, I've upgraded many things, to include a Motorcraft ignition system (AMC started using in 1979, it is such an improvement over Prestolite)

The Medic
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Monday, August 5th, 2019 AT 6:19 PM
Tiny
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This is my first jeep an it's driving me nuts not being able to figure it out. Someone has done away with the plugs on the wiring harness and have just added random wires. The only plugs I have are on the distributor, ECM. I'll take pictures for you tomorrow. I only have 3 wires coming fro inside I have 2 from fuse box and one coming from tachometer. It's got a 360 in it with a summit 650 dual feed carburetor. My wiring is a total nightmare.
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Monday, August 5th, 2019 AT 6:40 PM
Tiny
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I'm pretty sure I inherited someone's nightmare headache.
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Tuesday, August 6th, 2019 AT 5:00 AM
Tiny
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Many diagrams from 1976-1986 have much of the same information.

My favorite all around is the 1979 schematic, it has Motorcraft ignition (which mine is upgraded to) lots of the rest is common to the other years.

Just so I don't have to re-write this explanation on how and why I colored my diagram.

See my 1st answer (SUNDAY, JULY 5TH, 2015 AT 7:41 AM) at this link

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/1979-jeep-cj5-wiring-issue

The two 1979 halves are at the bottom of that answer should you want to explore further. (like where the other end of wires wind up)

What I did now to make this easier for you to see is I chopped out everything except for the alternator stuff from the diagram.

I "arrowed" the fusible link that maybe has been overlooked.

See diagram below.

Let me know what you find or need!

The Medic
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Tuesday, August 6th, 2019 AT 8:17 PM
Tiny
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Sorry I haven't had time to look at this. I worked 14 hours today. Thanks for all your help. Hopefully I'll have the time to go over it tomorrow.
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Wednesday, August 7th, 2019 AT 6:37 PM
Tiny
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We're always here!

Take your time.

The Medic
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Wednesday, August 7th, 2019 AT 7:26 PM
Tiny
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Hey sorry I've been so busy I've decided to go with a 63a Delco Remy alternator. Can you show me a wiring diagram for this?
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Wednesday, August 14th, 2019 AT 5:02 PM
Tiny
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This is the one?

Pictures below.

The Medic
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Wednesday, August 14th, 2019 AT 7:07 PM
Tiny
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Where is the wire go to from the #1 spot on the alternator?
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Thursday, August 15th, 2019 AT 3:38 PM
Tiny
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That's a common GM generator. If you're referring to the brown wire, that goes to the dash "Battery" warning light. With the ignition switch on, current flows through the bulb, then through that brown wire into the internal voltage regulator. You'll find the remaining approximately two volts at terminal 2. That is the turn-on signal that tells the regulator to turn on and start allowing current to flow through the generator's rotating field winding.

Besides the stationary coil of wire and the magnet, (electromagnet, in this case), the third needed ingredient is movement between them, to generate a voltage mechanically. That means the engine has to be running and the belt is spinning the field winding. At that point, an output voltage and current is produced. Part of that output current is tapped off and goes back to the regulator to tell it the charging system is working. When the regulator sees that, it puts 12 volts back out on the brown wire. With that 12 volts on one side of the bulb, and the battery's voltage on the other side of the bulb, the difference in voltage is near 0 volts, so the warning light turns off.

A common problem is a break in the circuit for that brown wire. A burned-out bulb is not sufficient to cause a no-charge condition because there is also a 510 ohm resistor on the instrument cluster to pass the start-up current in case the bulb has burned out. If there is a break in the brown wire, the regulator will not get the 12 volt signal to turn on, however, there is often enough residual magnetism in the core of the rotating field winding that it can self-excite and get a little output current started. All it takes is a tiny tickle of current, then the magnetic field will build and build on its own until it's strong enough for the regulator to step in. The symptom is typically a no-charge condition at first while the engine is idling, and it can take a few seconds to many minutes before charging starts. It has a much better chance of starting when engine speed is raised. Once charging starts, it will continue until the engine is stopped.

Terminal 1 is where the regulator senses system voltage. In this case it is tied right to the output wire which is tied to the positive battery cable. For some custom applications, that red jumper wire is placed internally inside the generator. The reason for having that terminal available outside is in some vehicles they want to measure system voltage at some remote point rather than right at the battery. For those vehicles that red wire will come from someplace else that still has full system voltage. On newer trucks in particular, GM had a real bad problem with flickering digital instrument clusters. To reduce that flicker, they tied this red wire right to the 12-volt feed at the cluster. It was more important to hold the voltage steady right there. The result was a slight fluctuation in system voltage at other places on the truck, but those other places, such as head lights, computers, and the radio, are not so susceptible to those fluctuations. It wasn't bad enough to notice, for example, flickering head lights.

As a temporary measure, when you're stranded with a break someplace in the brown wire, and the generator won't start up on its own, just use a stretched-out paper clip, or needle-nose pliers to momentarily touch terminals 1 and 2 together. That will put voltage on terminal 2 which will get charging started. From then on, the small input current is supplied by tapping off a small sample of the output current, so the system will keep right on running until you stop the engine.
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Thursday, August 15th, 2019 AT 4:16 PM
Tiny
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I'm getting no reading from alternator. I think I got a bad one at battery term on back of alternator meter reads 0.00.
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Thursday, August 15th, 2019 AT 4:26 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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I can't find a diagram for this so we'll have to rely on my memory. If you're missing the 12 volts on the large output stud, (red arrow), that should be a solid piece of wire going back to the battery's positive cable. GM often ran it down to the large "Battery" cable stud on the starter solenoid as a convenient tie point, rather than running it back to the battery. That second wire could get overlooked when replacing the starter. They used that for other circuits too, so the entire electrical system could be dead if that wire is overlooked.

There is also going to be a fuse link wire spliced into that wire. Those can be hidden in the wiring harness somewhere because you aren't expected to have to get to them very often. A fuse link wire is a regular wire that is smaller in diameter than the wire it's spliced into, so it is the weak link in the chain. That piece only needs to be an inch or two long, but it's usually around four to six inches in length. This is a special piece of wire because its insulation is designed to not melt or burn. It will be a dull color compared to the normal shiny wires. The color denotes its current rating.

Where unsuspecting people get into trouble is when they replace their generator with one with a larger output current capacity. An AC generator will always only develop exactly the amount of current needed by the electrical system, and no more. Just because a generator with a larger capacity is installed, it isn't going to develop more current except for one condition. That is during a full-load output current test with a professional load tester. During that test, which lasts all of a few seconds, the generator is going to develop its maximum current it's designed to deliver. The fuse link wire was selected at the factory for the size of the generator installed there. While the rest of the output wire is capable of handling the maximum current of the largest generator available at the time, the fuse link wire is not. During the full-load output current test, an "upgraded" generator could develop more current than the fuse link wire is rated for, so that link could burn open.

While less common, if multiple high-current accessories are added to the vehicle, along with a larger generator, that combination could also overload the fuse link wire. A winch is a good example of that.
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Thursday, August 15th, 2019 AT 5:08 PM
Tiny
FRANK REID
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I don't have any fuse links. Some one has ripped wiring out of jeep I have solid wires. I have a solenoid on the fire wall. That's where I have my alternator wire tied in but I touch the big red battery stud on back of alternator with ground on negative battery post I get no voltage. Should I try to jump them like you said an see if it starts charging?
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Thursday, August 15th, 2019 AT 5:25 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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Go back to my diagram on TUESDAY, AUGUST 6TH, 2019 AT 8:17 PM

This shows everything alternator under the hood.

Here's the whole 1979 diagram. I colored it, any questions about it just ask!

The Medic
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Thursday, August 15th, 2019 AT 6:12 PM
Tiny
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I'll have to print it out when I try to enlarge the picture it gets distorted. My question is, when the engine is running shouldn't I be able to get 14 volts showing from back of alternator I'm getting nothing at the solenoid or the alternator. This is confusing me lol. I'm going to have to pay someone to fix it and I'm going to feel stupid because it's probably a simple fix.
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Thursday, August 15th, 2019 AT 6:24 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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This should be easy to check.

The Medic
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Thursday, August 15th, 2019 AT 8:07 PM
Tiny
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Okay, I'll check this when I get home from work. Thank you for being patient.
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Friday, August 16th, 2019 AT 5:22 AM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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On CJ's first diagram, the fuse link wire is way at the top, right under the digit, "3". In his later post, it is drawn differently, but he has it circled. When you have an aftermarket wiring harness, or any other non-standard part, there's no way for us to know what someone else did, so we can only tell you what we know relative to standard parts. In this case, you have a GM charging system, and a Ford starting system. Ford uses the large "Battery" terminal on the starter solenoid as their convenient tie point. This is a good place for someone to make a mistake and connect the generator's wire to the wrong large stud. If that was done, you would find 12 volts on the generator's output stud only while you were cranking the engine. A better guess is that wire got overlooked and is not connected.

Regardless, you absolutely must have battery voltage, (12 volts), on the generator's output stud all the time. If 12 volts can't get from the battery to that stud, it can't get from the stud to the battery when the engine is running.
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Friday, August 16th, 2019 AT 4:16 PM

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