Spark plug insert too far

Tiny
ASCARDINO
  • MEMBER
  • 2001 LINCOLN TOWN CAR
  • 4.6L
  • V8
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 170 MILES
I used a m14 1.25 helicoil insert in my Triton engine aluminum, and somehow pushed the insert approximately 4 threads past the top of hole.

My understanding is that there are only around 5 threads for the plug to attach to already. Could I have really have pushed it that far down?

I used the insert with 5 normal threads and two perforated threads. I'm almost certain I was all the way down when tapping the hole. The tap is a two stage tap (my description)with the actual tap threads starting at around an inch. The inch in front of the tap threads have threads that the helicoil screws to and then the whole unit is placed in the hole to be screwed in, after applying thermal compound.

So I know I tapped as far as it would go because it stopped. However after screwing in the helicoil and suspecting I had gone maybe 1 thread too deep, I backed it out and had less than 1 threads worth of shavings in the stuck to the grease. And I just tried to budge the insert down as a test and could feel more tapping, and I pulled up just a very few small shavings again.

I know I prob need a horoscope to confirm exactly where the insert is in relation to the hole. I don't have a ride up to the parts store to rent one for a little while so I was hoping maybe somebody here could point me in the right direction. Should I just keep tapping and maybe tap the insert out? Or would that push it into the cylinder, and if it did could I retrieve it out? This is a Triton engine with something like 1 ft long spark plug wells. Or, since it's 2001 Lincoln town car, should I take it to a field and have everyone I know come together and use it for target practice, and then roll it off a cliff?
Saturday, April 17th, 2021 AT 11:30 AM

8 Replies

Tiny
KASEKENNY
  • MECHANIC
  • 18,907 POSTS
I believe the 4.6L is an interference engine so it is important to know for sure how far in the coil goes. You can use a borescope but it is unlikely you will be able to see exactly how far in it goes are you will need to go down the plug hole so it is hard to turn it to see at this angle.

If it were me, I would start over and put a new one in. Here is a guide that will help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDt5OUIZTs0

Just coat the drill bit in petroleum grease if you have to drill it again and that should catch most all the metal.

Let us know how you make out with this. Thanks
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Saturday, April 17th, 2021 AT 5:50 PM
Tiny
ASCARDINO
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
Thank you for your reply. I agree starting over would be best, that is where I need instruction. If I start turning the tap from the top of the new threats, it screws in right alongside the new threads fine. That is until it gets to the very top of the tap threads. When I was tapping the new holes this is the points that it stopped. But not now that I've put an insert in, I'm wanting to know if I should just try to push the tap through the insert that is compounded to the threads?
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Saturday, April 17th, 2021 AT 8:03 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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  • 18,907 POSTS
Okay. Maybe I am confused. When you say you are tapping the new threads, is this with the coil (old threads) that you think is too far down, still in there?

If so you are going to have to drill those out to remove them. You are not going to be able to clear the threads with a tap as this is to be cutting the seat for the threads to sit in.

Let me know if I am not understanding. Can you get a video of what you are dealing with if I am not understanding? Thanks
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Sunday, April 18th, 2021 AT 6:24 PM
Tiny
ASCARDINO
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
I can't take a decent picture to show you as the spark plug well is almost a foot deep, however I can summarize it like this: the spark plug itself screws in more than half of an inch more than the other plugs.
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Monday, April 19th, 2021 AT 9:32 AM
Tiny
ASCARDINO
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  • 4 POSTS
I posted accidentally before I was finished.

I honestly don't even know what it's gripping because as I understand it there are very few original threads anyway.

So the insert has to be drilled out, and then what, retap it with a thicker tap? Like that expensive tap that all the people in the know recommend, that cost several hundred dollars?

I still don't understand how the darn thing is so far down in there, I was informed by everything I read and saw that I would meet resistance and the coil would be set in place. I was also told what size insert to use. I would need to be sure that I wouldn't make the exact same mistake again.
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Monday, April 19th, 2021 AT 9:38 AM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
  • MECHANIC
  • 18,907 POSTS
Couple things. The only time you need to drill the hole larger is when there is a thread that is damaged and you need to get rid of the actual thread and then when you install the coil it puts the threads back to the original size.

So what you need to do is just get rid of the coil that you put in there so you would use a drill bit that is the same size. Then retap it with the same tap you just used. You can look at this like you are just cleaning up the threads.

However, if you have not done it, it may be worthwhile to install the plug and then turn the motor over by hand. First of all, if the plug tightens down then you should be fine. Just because the threads may be too far down doesn't mean the plug is going to insert further into the combustion chamber. This depth is set by the length of the threads and electrode of the spark plug in comparison to the depth of the hole through the head.

So if the plug is tight and you turn the motor over by hand and it makes no contact then I am sure you will be fine. However, just to be sure, run the engine for a minute and then remove the plug and make sure the gap is the same as you set it. If the piston touches the plug at all it will crush the electrode or close it down.
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Monday, April 19th, 2021 AT 6:39 PM
Tiny
JOE BRAMBLETT
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
Same problem in a Zetec. The insert actually went far enough to just barely contact the piston head, and the plug ended up with its electrode mashed down. Apparently the contact with the plug released the insert just enough that it backed out a turn or two when removing the plug, but it's still close enough for the electrode to hit.

At this point, the problem is somewhat bandaged by using another short insert as a spacer on the spark plug to get it to the same height as the others, and JB Weld to keep it from backing out. I'm calling the head ruined, so just limping it along as long as I can to build up a better down payment for a different daily driver, then I can wheel this one off to the side and rebuild it as my schedule allows. Given that it's 20 years old, I'm figuring on an overhaul; replacing the head, oil pan, (dented, leaks a couple drops a day) rod bearings, rings, and of course all seals and gaskets. Timing belt kit, water pump, harmonic balancer and crank seal were all done last year or they'd be on the list for this round too.

After this idiocy with the Zetecs and Tritons launching plugs for years, I've really lost any interest in ever buying another Ford, but I can rebuild for less than I'm likely to be able to buy anything with a freshly rebuilt engine, so I might as well keep this one around as a backup for whatever I get to replace it.
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Monday, December 19th, 2022 AT 8:55 AM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,643 POSTS
Good call, we can help you rebuild the engine if needed please start a new question with any concerns you have.
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Monday, December 19th, 2022 AT 3:50 PM

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