Stalling? Gauge needle shows less than 12 volts?

Tiny
PURXLR8SHUN
  • MEMBER
  • 1988 VOLKSWAGEN CABRIOLET
  • 1.8L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 88,000 MILES
Get the car started and running at idle okay, charge light on dash on and volt gauge needle shows less than 12 volts, bring RPMs up to kick in alternator /regulator assembly into charging system. When the light goes off and needle on gauge goes above 12 V, engine stalls, you can hear fuel pump relay release, but once the RPMs are low enough the alt/regulator kicks out and it's back to battery power, it takes off running again without totally stalling. It does that surging cycle 4 to7 times then stalls. The alt / regulator bench test good at 2 different places. This is the first time I've ever seen anything like this. Oh yeah, the battery is good. What would cause the voltage to stop to the fuel pump relay when the alternator starts working but stays on while running on battery power. No accidents, running great when parked a year and eight months ago, was daily driver for two years until parked. Saved it for my son to have. Thank you, Kevin.
Friday, December 1st, 2023 AT 3:04 AM

6 Replies

Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 48,363 POSTS
It sounds like the alternator is throwing AC voltage which most places don't test for. I would use a voltmeter on AC voltage and, start the engine and increase the RPMs then test the voltage at the battery. It should show no voltage. If so, the alternator is bad causing the issue.

This guide should be able to help:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-a-car-alternator

Please go over this guide and get back to us.
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Friday, December 1st, 2023 AT 4:40 PM
Tiny
PURXLR8SHUN
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
Sorry, it's taken so long to reply, I have 3 test meters and when I hooked any one of the 3 up to the battery, they read 12.4 volts DC, and 24.8 volts AC, then with the car running the AC voltage stayed at double the 12-volt reading, so 14.5 volts DC show as 29 volts AC. And all 3 of my test meters read that way. 2 are digital and one is analog. So now my brain is kind of twisted-up on this little problem. I put in a new voltage regulator / brush holder with brush set and now the charge light goes out right away instead of having to increase the RPM to 1,200 to get it to start charging.
If I hook any one of my test meters to the battery only, I still get the same thing, showing AC voltage at double what the DC voltage is, and that is with the battery out of the car. I'm a little confused as to how this is working out this way.
Oh yeah, it still stalls out, now it runs 2 to 3 seconds, and you can hear the fuel pump relay click (releasing the power I would assume) and it dies right away. You can't feather the gas to keep it running either, it just dies.
I have a jumper wire to put power to the fuel pump when I remove the relay. It was running good (sitting still, not driven this whole time doing this) and then started running on 3 cylinders. It just had a new timing belt, dist. Cap and rotor, plug wires, spark plugs, thermostat, water pump, drive belts, air filter, and oil and filter change about 100 miles ago.
The car has 88,762.2 Original miles on it by the way.
Thank you for your time,
Kevin B. Lewis /XLR8R
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Sunday, December 17th, 2023 AT 11:38 PM
Tiny
KEN L
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Yes, so the AC voltage is showing us the diodes in the alternator are bad and it needs to be replaced. Good find.
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Monday, December 18th, 2023 AT 9:44 AM
Tiny
PURXLR8SHUN
  • MEMBER
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I'm guessing that you missed the spot in the prior email where I had said that if I hooked any of my 3 meters to the battery only ( nothing else hooked to it just 1 of the test meters ) that they all on AC voltage setting read double what ever the DC voltage was, so I had 12.4 Volts DC, and 24.8 Volts AC at the battery with no car hooked to it, only 3 test meters, one at a time.
Like I said in the previous email, she has 88,762.2 Original miles, she just had the timing belt, idler pulley and tensioner pulley, water pump. Thermostat, spark plugs, plug wires, distributor cap and rotor, plus oil and filter changed about 10 months ago. The car was running great, but had a fuel pump relay issue then, got a new one and no problem. Car sits 10 to 12 months and this issue just popped up when trying to get it running again. I'm starting to think the problem is the fuel pump relay. I have read some bad things about some of the aftermarket relays, for those years. They fail a lot because they're made cheaply and can't handle the load. I was wondering if they have a piece of bi-metal in there that could make them act like a flasher but with the fuel pump instead of lights. And when the full voltage and amps, the relay heats up and pops open and cools rapidly and resets till it gets hot again. It would take a few minutes for the heat to soak through to the outside. I have had the car running by jumping the power to fuel pump at where the relay plugs in, I unplug it and jumper the 2 big terminals and the fuel pump runs and so does the car. It did back-fire up through the intake a couple of times so I've gotta check the ignition timing on her. And for some odd reason she decided to run on 3 cylinders insted of all 4 ( after about 45 minutes of running time, not driving ) so I have to see what happened there too. I think I have a bad relay, what do you think?
Thanks,
Kevin / XLR8R
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Wednesday, December 20th, 2023 AT 10:13 PM
Tiny
KEN L
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You said, "AC voltage stayed at double the 12-volt reading"? So, is the alternator producing AC voltage? How can a battery produce AC voltage not connected to anything? It's impossible.
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Thursday, December 21st, 2023 AT 1:59 PM
Tiny
PURXLR8SHUN
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  • 4 POSTS
I have two digital gauges and one analog, and I can set any one of the three on the AC Volt setting and just go across the battery posts without the battery even being in the car and all three read the same, AC volts is always double what the DC volts are.
This is the first time I've ever had a car run on battery power and die when the voltage goes to 13 and above. On volts.
I wouldn't believe me either, but I saw the meters and so did my customer. One meter is the $10.00 Harbor Freight one, the analog is by Hyper tough and it's the $22.00 little box with a sweep needle, little wheel on the side to adjust and Zero the OHM meter, old school type, and the third is a INNOVA 3306A ( www. IEquus. Com ) digital meter and it cost $23.00 to $30.00 bucks. I figured that a test meter set on AC volts hooked in on a DC voltage system would read Zero on the analog, and the digital meters would have a blinking bar where the numbers would be, but if AC voltage bleed through the system you'd get a reading instantly.
In 48 years of working on cars, trucks, vans, motorcycles, gas and diesel welder / generators, and various other pieces of construction site equipment, this is the first time I've ever checked for AC voltage getting out of the alternator, but I've never had a car idle and rev up till it hits 13 volts then shuts off, you can even hear the fuel pump relay click ( releasing the power to hold the relay on for the fuel pump ) at the same time it hits 13 volts.
Is there some sort of safety feature in test meters to keep them from frying when they get hooked up that way? My oldest test meter is 11 years old. Maybe I need a $125.00 meter like you have so it doesn't do the things mine does, I don't know.
I do agree with you, I shouldn't get any reading at all on a meter set to AC volts that's hooked up to a 12-volt DC Battery, but I do, and it's always double what the DC voltage is.
Now I have to find out what is wrong with the Cabriolet and why these test meters do this voltage thing, my mind won't rest until I have the reason why they do. Got a cheaper meter? Set it on AC volts and do a reading on your car battery and see what you get, if you could please. This is going to destroy my brain, and at 64 years old, it won't take much, just kidding. Trying to keep a since of humor on this strangeness.
Thank you, and I hope you don't think I'm trying to mess with you, I'm just trying to fix an 88 VW Cabriolet. Thanks.
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Monday, December 25th, 2023 AT 6:38 PM

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