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Engine not cranking over

Tiny
GOLDENDAVE
  • MEMBER
  • 2012 HONDA CIVIC
  • 1.8L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 142,000 MILES
Almost every time I try to start my car for the first time of the day, the engine will crank once then stop. Upon the second or third attempt to start it, it will turn over and any other time I try to start it during the day there is no issue, so it's only ever present when the car sits overnight. This isn't too big of a problem considering I really only drive the car to keep the battery charged, otherwise it's parked 95% of the time.

What I've had looked at so far:
- The local Honda dealer had the car for almost a full week earlier this January and couldn't find any issues with the electrical system. The battery was replaced at this time, so it has less than 3,000 miles on it.

- I'm not experiencing what I've typically experienced when a starter is going bad, such as clicking or no crank. It does slow crank.

- The alternator isn't making any strange noises or producing any other symptoms that it's failing asides from potentially not charging the battery. Though, as recently as 5/2/20 this battery and alternator tested okay at my local auto parts store.

What's weird about all of this, if I turn on the headlights for 10-15 seconds before trying to start the car "sometimes" I am able to start it on the first attempt.

The car has about 142,000 on it and is driven maybe 500 miles a month. I don't use a battery tender (it sits in a lot, so I can't run an extension cord to it) and disconnecting the battery entirely when it's not in use is inconvenient.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
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Monday, May 4th, 2020 AT 6:51 AM

16 Replies

Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,185 POSTS
Hello,

Typically when the engine is cranking slow it will be a battery cable are starter issue. I would make sure the ground cable to the engine and body are in good shape all looks for corrosion on the positive cable.

Try this as well:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-battery-load-test

Check out the diagrams (below). Please let us know what happens.
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Monday, January 4th, 2021 AT 11:07 AM
Tiny
GOLDENDAVE
  • MEMBER
  • 51 POSTS
Thanks for the quick reply, Ken. I'll review the documentation in the coming days. As far as ground cables go, do you have any guides indicating where they are on this engine and suggestions for cleaning them (ie would a wire brush work)?
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Monday, January 4th, 2021 AT 11:07 AM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,185 POSTS
Here is a diagram to show the battery terminal service and you can see kind of where the cables go. Follow the cables to see where they lead to. Can you please shoot a quick video with your phone so we can see what's going on? That would be great. You can upload it here with your response. Check out the diagrams (below). Please let us know what happens.
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Monday, January 4th, 2021 AT 11:07 AM
Tiny
GOLDENDAVE
  • MEMBER
  • 51 POSTS
Here's photos of what I believe to be various grounds inside the engine bay. I haven't had a chance to test them with a multi-meter yet (cords are too short) but I was able to test the battery and it's at 12.05v when it's off and 14.05v when it's running. Since it's just me testing I wasn't able to see if it dips below 10.

I'll try to test the grounds in the coming days, but I have two questions about doing so: what resistance level should I be looking at? Meaning if I have my multi-meter set on ohm; should I be looking for always 0 or is there a range? And 2) to clean the grounds do I need to disconnect the battery (probably a dumb question, but I don't know).

I'm trying to eliminate everything else because to me it seems odd that the starter would only have trouble on the first try each day but all other attempts there are no issues.
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Monday, January 4th, 2021 AT 11:07 AM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,185 POSTS
I would clean each of those grounds and then replace the starter if that does not help. Starters go bad in many different ways. Let me know what happens.
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Monday, January 4th, 2021 AT 11:07 AM
Tiny
GOLDENDAVE
  • MEMBER
  • 51 POSTS
Posting an update since the issue has been resolved.

I had the starter replaced and for the last two weeks I've had no issues starting the car, even when it hasn't been started in several days. I ended up taking the car to a local repair shop since I don't have jack stands or the space to work. They said everything tested fine and that the starter didn't need to be replaced. Knowing it was most likely the culprit I had the starter replaced anyways and am glad I did.
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Monday, January 4th, 2021 AT 11:07 AM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
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Nice work, we are here to help, please use 2CarPros anytime.
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Monday, January 4th, 2021 AT 11:08 AM
Tiny
PLEASE_HELP
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
  • 2012 HONDA CIVIC
  • 2WD
  • MANUAL
  • 30,000 MILES
Good Morning,
I went to start my mom's car after it has been sitting for about a month and when I press the unlock button on the fob nothing happens. The little red light turns on but that's it. So I manually unlocked the door. No lights came on. Tried to start the car, nothing. No sound or anything. Thought it was the battery. Hooked it up to another car nothing. Let ut "charge" for a few minutes, nothing. Any ideas what the problem could be?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thank you
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Monday, January 25th, 2021 AT 10:59 AM (Merged)
Tiny
JOHNNYT73
  • MECHANIC
  • 924 POSTS
Its most likely still the battery. After sitting for month the battery is VERY depleted. You can try leaving the cables on for about 15 minutes or so to see if that helps. I would just take the battery to the parts store to have it tested. Then replaced if bad. They will also charge it for free if you need to.
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Monday, January 25th, 2021 AT 10:59 AM (Merged)
Tiny
PLEASE_HELP
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
Thank you
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Monday, January 25th, 2021 AT 10:59 AM (Merged)
Tiny
GOLDENDAVE
  • MEMBER
  • 51 POSTS
  • 2012 HONDA CIVIC
  • 1.8L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 140,000 MILES
Over the last several months I've been experiencing an intermittent problem where upon trying to start the car for the first time each day, turning the key results in no crank. The battery was replaced in the last month when after two weeks at the Honda dealer I go to for service couldn't find any other issues with the charging or fuel system. Here's a question I posted at that time:
https://www.2carpros.com/questions/trickle-charger-battery-tender

Since the dealer says there's no issue with the charging system and the issue is non-cranking, I'm wondering if starter motor is about to fail. Sometimes when I turn the key to position 3 (to turn on all accessories) for a few seconds before trying to start it, it will turn over without issue. There's no warning lights coming from the dash. The only other odd/possibly related issue is when starting the car for the first time each day the rev counter will bounce (we're talking between 50-200 rpm's. can barely see the needle move, but can hear it) until it's shifted to drive.

It's important to note that I drive this car maybe 2-3 times a week for no more than 30 minutes each time. I work from home, so I don't have to commute anywhere.

Thanks in advance!
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Monday, January 25th, 2021 AT 10:59 AM (Merged)
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,640 POSTS
The idea that the tachometer does what you described leads me to believe you are losing battery voltage. Are the terminals in good condition, clean, tight, and so on? When this happens, is there a click or anything from the starter?

Joe
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Monday, January 25th, 2021 AT 10:59 AM (Merged)
Tiny
GOLDENDAVE
  • MEMBER
  • 51 POSTS
Joe,

The terminals are clean/in good condition and I haven't heard the clicking sound usually associated with a dead starter. I've uploaded a photo of the terminals as well as two videos; one showing under the hood as the engine is running and the other showing a failed start from the driver's seat.

In the first video you'll be able to hear the engine crank three before stopping at the 9 second mark. Here's a timeline of that first video:
- 4-9 seconds - key is turned to the accessory position to allow the fuel pump to run.
- 9-10 seconds - engine cranks three times then stops.
- At 15 seconds the engine turns over on the third crank.

I should add it was 16 degrees outside when the engine failed to start this morning.
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Monday, January 25th, 2021 AT 10:59 AM (Merged)
Tiny
GOLDENDAVE
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Failed start video.
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Monday, January 25th, 2021 AT 10:59 AM (Merged)
Tiny
GOLDENDAVE
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Running engine.
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Monday, January 25th, 2021 AT 10:59 AM (Merged)
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,640 POSTS
Hi,

I have to be honest, even when it started, it sounded like it turned slowly. I want you to check something for me. Drive the vehicle to a parts store and ask them to load test the battery. Most do it free of charge. If it passes, there is a relay under the hood called the starter cut relay. I'm questioning if it is bad. I attached a pic of the component. The reasoning is it stopped itself from cranking and other times you get nothing.

Here is a test for checking relays:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

Here are a few other links you may find helpful:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-test-light-circuit-tester

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-voltmeter

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-wiring

_____________________

If the relay is good, the battery is good as well as all connections, my next step would be the starter. Here is a link that explains in general how one is replaced:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-replace-a-starter-motor

Here are the directions specific to your vehicle for both replacement and testing of the starter. The attached pics correlate with the directions.

____________________

2012 Honda Civic L4-1.8L
Starter Removal, Installation, and Performance Test
Vehicle Starting and Charging Starting System Starter Motor Service and Repair Removal and Replacement Starter Removal, Installation, and Performance Test
STARTER REMOVAL, INSTALLATION, AND PERFORMANCE TEST
Starter Removal, Installation, and Performance Test

Removal

1. Battery Terminal - Disconnection

pic 2

1. Make sure the ignition switch is in LOCK (0).

2. Disconnect and isolate the negative cable and battery sensor (A) from the battery.

NOTE: Always disconnect the negative side first.

3. Disconnect the positive cable (B) from the battery.

2. Vehicle Lift

1. Raise the vehicle on a lift, and make sure it is securely supported.

3. Tire and Wheel-Removal, Front Right

pic 3

1. Remove the right front wheel.

4. Engine Undercover

pic 4

1. Remove the engine undercover (A).

5. Starter

pic 5

1. Remove the intake manifold bracket.

pic 6

2. Disconnect the connector.

pic 7

3. Remove the clamps and the connector.

pic 8

4. Remove the starter.

pic 9

5. Disconnect the cable and the connector.

Test

1. Starter Performance - Test

pic 10

1. Clamp the starter firmly in a vise.

2. Make the connections for this test using the thickest (gauge) wire possible (preferably the same gauge as used on the vehicle).

NOTE: To avoid damaging the starter, never leave the battery connected for more than 5 seconds.

3. Connect the battery as shown, and check for continuity between the B terminal and the starter body. If there is continuity, it is working properly.

pic 11

4. Disconnect the battery from the starter body, and check for continuity between the B terminal and the starter body. If there is no continuity, it is working properly.

pic 12

5. Connect the starter to the battery as shown, and confirm that the motor runs.

6. If the electric current meets the specification when the battery voltage is at 11.5 V, the starter is working properly.

pic 13

Installation

1. Starter

pic 14

1. Connect the cable and the connector. Make sure the starter cable crimped side of the ring terminal faces away from the starter when you connect it.

pic 15

2. Install the starter, then loosely install the upper mounting bolt (A) and the lower mounting bolt (B).

3. Tighten the upper mounting bolt, then tighten the lower mounting bolt.

pic 16

4. Install the clamps and the connector.

pic 17

5. Connect the connector.

pic 18

6. Install the intake manifold bracket.

2. Engine Undercover

pic 19

1. Install the engine undercover (A).

3. Tire and Wheel-Installation, Front Right

pic 20

1. Install the right front wheel.

NOTE: Before installing the wheel, clean the mating surfaces between the brake disc and the inside of the wheel.

4. Battery Terminal - Reconnection

pic 21

NOTE: If the battery performs abnormally, test the battery.

1. Clean the battery terminals.

2. Connect the positive cable (A) to the battery.

NOTE: Always connect the positive side first.

3. Connect the negative cable and battery sensor (B) to the battery.

4. Apply multipurpose grease to the terminals to prevent corrosion.

5. Starter After Install - Check

1. Start the engine to make sure the starter works properly.

_____________________________________

Let me know if this helps or if you have other questions.

Joe
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Monday, January 25th, 2021 AT 10:59 AM (Merged)

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