Rear brake shoes repalcement?

Tiny
CRAIG ADEN
  • MEMBER
  • 1997 FORD F-250
  • 5.4L
  • V8
  • 4WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 246,000 MILES
Putting new brake drums and brake shoes on rear of my truck. It came with two-inch brake shoes I put on 2.50 brake shoes. Now I'm putting on Raybestos 9652r 7 bolt drums but I'm not sure if I need 12x2.50 or 12x3in brake shoes could you please help me Ford does not know Rabestos does not know. So, I don't know. Please help me. Thank you, Craig
Friday, April 28th, 2023 AT 1:47 AM

1 Reply

Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,916 POSTS
The only proper response is to put on what matches what you took off. Often that means dragging some of the old parts to the auto parts store to match them up.

What is your intent with putting the wrong shoes and drums on the rear? If the larger parts fit, they will seriously affect the performance of the braking system. Wider shoes will grab harder than designed, meaning you'll have real easy rear-wheel lockup. If you're involved in a crash when the other guy runs a red light, you can be sure his lawyer or insurance investigator will find those shoes and any other modifications done to safety systems. They will argue you were partly at fault for the crash because you were less able to avoid it, and they will be right.

The manufacturers spend millions of dollars in research and development to design each brake system that is carefully balanced front to rear. Replacement shoes and linings that advertise things like better stopping power are not true. Replacement linings can offer better fade resistance at higher temperatures, and things like that, but the cheapest and the most expensive can not be allowed to have a different "coefficient of friction" than the originals had. In the unlikely event one type of lining grabs harder, it will be shorter or narrower than the originals, so the overall braking force stays the same.

The things that go into the design of the system include the diameters of the pistons in the calipers, wheel cylinders, and master cylinder, the width and length of the front and rear linings, the diameters of the drums and rotors, and the calibration of the valves inside the combination valve. That valve assembly sits on the frame rail right under the master cylinder. That valve will even be a different part number depending on whether the vehicle has air conditioning, a heavy duty cooling system, and engine size. All of those things, and many more, determine the weight distribution, front-to-rear. The valves are calibrated for those values.

Trucks and minivans can have a wide range of loading in the rear. To address that, they usually use a "rear height-sensing proportioning valve". That valve limits the pressure build-up beyond a certain point as the brake pedal is pushed further and further. That valve reduces the tendency of the rear brakes to lock up when more weight shifts to the front under hard braking. This is also why rear-wheel-anti-lock brakes, (RWAL) originally were developed for trucks. They are very effective at stopping the rear of the truck from trying to pass the front. Skidding tires have no traction. That's what leads to loss of control when the rear is lightly loaded. For a '97 model, your truck is likely to have this system. If it does, and your rear brakes grab too aggressively, the ABS Computer will see that and activate the system. The result is the overall rear braking performance will be limited to exactly what was offered with the correct linings.

If you're doing this modification for an off-road purpose, it's you who is going to be the expert. The only parts listed will be what the manufacturer specified for your model. I'm even wondering how you were able to fit wider drums to the axle without using longer axle shafts. No parts supplier and no professional will know what you're asking, and if they did, they would be very reluctant to share that information for fear of becoming a party to a potential lawsuit. That's why you're having trouble coming up with the answers. For real sure no professional mechanic will hang the wrong parts on any vehicle involving a safety system.

There's a golly-zillion of these trucks out there, and every auto parts store wants to know the right parts to sell you. There should be no problem figuring out what those are. When there is a question, it's because multiple variations were available. As an example, as far back as the 1980s, we could get "All-in-one kits" that included brake shoes of the correct size, but up to four wheel cylinder rebuilding kits in that package. The wheel cylinder diameters were different depending on whether it was a two-door, a four-door, a station wagon, or a truck. There were no listings anywhere to tell us which size wheel cylinder was used. We simply looked at the diameter molded into the rubber lip seals, then used those of the same diameter from the kit, and threw the rest away. In one case we accidentally came across a Pontiac that had a miserable brake pull to oner side since the car was new. We found it had a 13/16" wheel cylinder on one rear wheel, and a 7/8" on the other. A coworker and I were each working on one side of that car. We found that problem when one of us reached for the new seals and found a different package had already been opened by the other mechanic. Installing the correct wheel cylinder solved that pull and made the owner Sooooo happy.

If there's something I'm missing, let me know. If you're trying to solve some other problem with this modification, we need to address that. You might also consider looking at the Rock Auto web site. They do a real good job of listing all the possible sizes and variations for a part. Those parts are from a number of manufacturers. Some of them add pages of their own telling you why their parts are "better". When optional brake sizes were available for your model, they will have all of them included in the listings.
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Friday, April 28th, 2023 AT 8:23 PM

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