Parking lights

Hi,

Do you know if they are on at all times, or does this only happen when the key is turned off? I ask because if the key is in the on position, there will be no indicator.

Next, I don't feel it is the switch unless the lights are on regardless of the key position. Somehow, we are getting power when it isn't needed. So, let's try to narrow it down.

If you look below, I attached the wiring schematics for the exterior lighting. The first thing I'm questioning is the park lamp relay. If you look at the schematics, it shows the location to be in the power distribution box. What I need you to do is this. Remove that relay and confirm the lights went off. Next, if there is another relay with the same part number, switch them to see if it makes a difference. If there isn't one there, here is a link that explains how to test a relay:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

Let me know what you find or if you have other questions.

Take care,

Joe

See pics below. Pic 3 shows the relay location. (under-hood in the power distribution box)

I did hear a clicking sound when the park lights were going on and off. But couldn't tell which relay. I tried to remove the park lights relay but couldn't get it out, so I just made sure it is seated firmly. Now the park lights are working properly but since it is a random occurrence, I'll have to check over time if the issue is solved. If that is the case, then thanks so much.

Additional information:
The Park lights always have worked properly when the key is on, whether the sight switch is off, park lights on, or head lights on. It is just when the key is off that the park lights come on randomly with everything turned off.

Hi,

Since the relay is too tight to be removed, I wonder if there is a build-up of corrosion. That could cause issues.

Regardless, let me know if things change or if there is anything I can do to help.

Take care and feel free to come back anytime in the future.

Joe

Okay, so i took out the relay and it is very clean and no corrosion. I thought the issue was fixed with just a firm seating but last night the parking lights came on again at random when no one was around the vehicle. so today I'll switch relays with one with the same number and see if problem is isolated. Anything else to check? could it be the BCM or ignition switch?

Note, that the only time there is an issue is when the key is turned in the off position. all other combinations of ignition switch and light switch work properly.

Okay, I exchanged the park light relay with the blower relay that has the same number. the problem still exists which indicates it is not a faulty relay issue. I did notice that pushing in the key while in the off position can sometimes generate the issue with the park lights turning on. but if they are on, then nothing I do with the key while in the off position will turn the lights off. the warning dinger and the park lights are in sync.

So, if you push in on the ignition switch, you can cause the lights to turn on? Do me a favor. Let me know the engine size so I can check the correct ignition switch. If it is happening by pushing in on the switch, it sounds like there is a short to power in the steering column when the key is off.

Let me know.

Joe

It's 3.3. there is a pick n pull that might have the correct ignition switch. Is the engine size important for this switch?

sometimes I can cause the issue by pushing in on the key while in the off position. most times it is a random occurrence.

Hi,

I looked through schematics and the ignition switch itself doesn't have anything to do with the parking lights. Also, the switch is the same regardless of the engine.

Based on the info I was able to find, there must be a short at some point. When you said pushing in on the switch could sometimes cause it, I'm wondering if you are placing pressure on the harnesses inside the column.

If you look at the bottom of the steering column, there will be a wiring harness. Have a helper watch as you wiggle those wires around to see if they come on. If you want to gain better access to the wiring, the column cover can be removed. I attached the directions below for removing it. Since you are not actually replacing the cover, you should be able to simply remove the bolts behind the park brake release and not disconnect the cable. That will get it lowered but not removed.

If the lights come on or even flicker, that could be the issue. It could also be related to a failing switch. Hang in there. We'll figure it out together.

One last thing. I'm not sure if this model year will require reprogramming if the ignition switch is replaced. I don't believe it does, nothing is listed in the manual to indicate it, but anything is possible. Remember, the ignition switch is just that, a switch. It is not the key cylinder lock/tumbler.

Try this and let me know the results.

Take care,

Joe

See pics below: Note: The last pic shows three additional screws that can be removed to take the lower section off the column as well.

I've had this dash apart before for another issue that I'll discuss below that might be related.

Recently the parking lights are on all the time when the key is in the off position, whether I push on the key or not. It is not possible to have them turn off whether I mess with the wiring harness as you recommended or not. I've removed the attachments to the ignition switch and replaced them and worked with the entire wiring harness to see if a loose connection there but that doesn't solve the issue. I currently drive the car with the park light fuse removed unless driving at night. Even so when I turn the key off the dinger sounds unless the door is closed, so that sensor thinks the park lights are still on.

On the possibly related issue, some time ago I had an issue that you or one of your mechanics tried to help me solve. It involves the instrument panel lights not working properly. When the headlights are turned on at night the entire instrument panel including heating and radio come on but within 10 seconds, they fade out completely. we tried everything but eventually came to the conclusion that there may be a fault in the BCM. I am using a $1. eternal lamp to see the instruments in the event night driving is needed. You may review that thread for more information.

I also removed the ignition cylinder and cleaned it, but that didn't help. I was going to remove the ignition switch, clean and/or replace it, but I couldn't get the security screw out. seems like my tt10 is a little too blunt to fit into the screw. I'll have to get another tt set.

Hi,

I think I recall something related to the dash lights. Since the lights are now on at all times, it could be the switch itself shorted internally.

If you look at the pic below, I included the headlamp switch. Note there are two light green wires, one has a red tracer and the other has an orange tracer. With the lights in the off position, check to see if there is power on either of those wires. If there is, then most likely the switch is shorted internally.

Let me know what you find.

Joe

There are two green wires to the light switch, one with red and one with white tracer. both seem to have low voltage current as the dinger goes off when I touch either with a grounded tester. However, the tester light doesn't light so maybe my ground isn't the best. While messing with these wires the issue went away and I thought perhaps the issue is solved so I tried various positions and connections, and everything seemed to be working. So, I put the dash back together and seemed okay but coming out of a store half hour later the park lights were on again. Now it seems intermittent and not on all the time. perhaps a left over Halloween ghost?

Hi,

If removing and testing the wiring at the switch caused it to become intermittent, that is where I would check for damaged pins in the connector. You mentioned the wiring has voltage to them with the light switch off. That shouldn't be. If I'm reading the schematic correctly, the wires should have power when the lights are on and not off.

Is it possible for you to get a switch and try it? If so, make sure to be careful with the packaging so it can be returned if that isn't the problem.

Let me know.

Joe

I already changed out with a used switch. Problem exists with both. It must be in the pin connection on the wiring. I'll see if I can work on that.

Hi,

That is what I would check next, something is powering things when it shouldn't be, so there has to be a short to power at some point.

Let me know what you find.

Joe

I had the dash open again today. I replaced the ignition switch with a used one - no change. I put a different light switch in - no change. I checked all the connections and couldn't find an issue.
Problem summary:
- With the power off (whether key in or out) both the park lights are on, and the warning dinger sounds (closing the door silences the dinger but park lights still on).
- Turning the key to the first on position turns off both the park lights and the dinger. All other light switch positions work correctly with the key on and motor running.

Hi,

I just went through the schematics again. I cannot find a light green wire with a white tracer. You indicated that is off the light switch, correct?

Now, since the dinger stops when you use a tester, I need you to try something. It sounds like the ground may be the issue. There should be a black wire from the switch. Simply splice into the black wire and run a jumper to a known good ground and see if that changes things.

Let me know.

Joe

Maybe I was confusing by what I said earlier. with the light switch disconnected from the switch, when I touched the tester to either green wire the dinger "sounds", but the 12 v test light does not illuminate. not sure what voltage is on those wires. I may not get to test the ground wire tomorrow but will let you know when I do.

Hi,

With the headlamp switch disconnected, there should be no power to the green wires. The idea that the dinger turned on is leading me to believe there is a ground issue and power is back feeding through the circuit seeking a new ground path. It's a theory at this point, but I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Let me know the results when you can.

Take care,

Joe

Okay, so I connected a grounding wire to the black lead of the light switch directly to the battery negative both with the light switch connected and with it switch disconnected - still same problem.

I did notice that the park lights are still illuminated with the ignition switch off and the light switch disconnected. Somehow when the ignition switch is turned off and key removed the park lights still become powered and the warning dinger sounds while the driver door is open (random of course but most of the time now).

Remove fuses 4 and 6 from the same fuse box as the relay you checked. See if the lights go off and stay off.

Let me know.

Joe

no, the park lights stay illuminated with fuses 4 and 6 out, and also with fuses 5 and 7 out.

Okay, then there is a short to power after the fuses. Here is what we need to do. Remove one fuse at a time until the lights go off. At that point, we will have at least narrowed it down to one circuit.

Let me know.

Joe

Okay Joe, I had to wait for the problem to occur because today the park lights are on for 5 or more minutes then off. With the key off and removed and the park lights switch off but the lights still on, I individually pulled each fuse in the power distribution box under the hood. The only one that turns off the park lights is #22 the 40-amp fuse dedicated to the park lights. I also pulled all except for the #22 fuse and the lights are still on. Interesting to note is that the warning dinger still sounds with all fuses including #22 pulled when the door is left open.

I also individually pulled fuses in the fuse block under the dash. The park lights only went off when I pulled fuse #4 (right one went off) and #6 (left one went off), which is as expected.

Again, the park lights do act in alignment with the light switch with the key turned on (i.e. only on when light switch is on park or headlights).

Hi,

The warning chime is controlled by the driver's door ajar switch. That is what signals the body control module (BCM) if the lights are left on. The idea that the chimes stayed on regardless of the fuses, I have a feeling the BCM may be bad and shorting internally or there is a connection issue. Since removing the fuses does shut power (fuses both before and after the BCM) that tells me the problem lies between the BCM and the lights.

If you look at the pics below, 1 and 2 are specific to the warning chime. Pic 3 shows how the headlamp switch provides ground when the switch is on. So, either the switch isn't opening the ground circuit when off, the BCM is bad, or the park lamp relay is stuck on. See pic 4 for the relay location.

Did you check the relay itself (pic 4)? Since this is happening when the headlamp switch is disconnected, I suspect it is either the relay or the body control module itself.

Do one last check for me. The BCM ground for the parking lights is in the left kick panel. That is where you left foot would rest when seated. Check that ground Pics 6 and 7. If that isn't bad, I would suspect the BCM.

Let me know.

Joe

See pics below.

It's definitely not the relay. there are several relays with the same number, and I've switched them with no change. So, it must be the BCM. That's the same conclusion we came to on a previous problem where the instrument lights come on then fade to nothing within 10 seconds of turning the headlights on.

I think the BCM is more expensive to replace than the various switches I've been changing out. Also, I understand that there may be different ones used in caravan/voyagers in this year.

Hi,

There will be a part number on the BCM. I did some quick research and found only one part number, but I could be wrong. Check out this site. They offer plug-and-play modules.

https://www.fs1inc.com/oem-bcm-body-control-module-plug-play-1997-plymouth-voyager-4686671.html

Please understand, I have absolutely nothing to do with that site, I just came across it. I don't want you to think that I or our site benefits from "selling parts" because we don't. See if you can find one cheaper that is plug-and-play. That way, you only have to remove and install it on your vehicle. The sites usually will ask for specifics such as engine size, VIN, transmission type, and so on.

I attached directions below for the removal and installation.

I hope this helps. Let me know.

Take care,

Joe

See pics below.

Thanks. checked it out and that company also has an ECM ECU unit for a 1997 Voyager. What does that unit control and is the BCM the best part to try replacing to fix this problem?

chatted with an agent at FS1. they said it could be ECM or BCM to fix light issues. any suggestions which is the likely part failure?

Okay, so I was messing around with the wiring from the ECM to the power distribution box; I disconnected the top plug to the ECM and reattached. Now the park lights seem to be working okay. I'll see if this is just a temporary fix or if I'm on to something. Will let you know.

Hi,

There could have been a bent pin in the connector or something to cause a short to power.
Stay in touch and let me know if things continue to work or if new problems arise.

Take care,

Joe

Okay, so i finally replaced the BCM from that Flagship One site you suggested. They were very good to work with.
I had 3 electrical issues: 1) parking lights come on at random; 2) dashboard lights come on then fade out when headlights turned on; and 3) front wipers come on at random and wiper delay doesn't work.

1) I believe the parking lights are a wiring connection issue as they are now working properly after replacing the ECM and fooling with the connectors to the ECM.

2) Since replacing the BCM the dashboard lights are now working properly indicating I did have a faulty BCM.

3) Replacing the BCM has also fixed the wiper delay issue, but still at time when I hit a pothole in the road the wipers come on for a while with the switch off. I had already replaced the switch so somewhere in the wiring there is a short that I will try to find, eventually.

I use this old van as my car when visiting my daughter in CA so won't be back there for a couple months, when I'll continue troubleshooting the wiper issue.

Just wanted to say thanks for your help in troubleshooting the dashboard issue that we finally concluded was a faulty BCM, which was actually the case. Replacing the BCM also resulted in mileage reduction from 183,000 to 162,000 miles. ;)

Hi,

I'm glad to know it is working for you. Anytime there are electrical issues, it can easily turn into a nightmare. LOL

Regardless, please feel free to come back anytime in the future if you have questions. You are always welcome here. Also, thanks for the update.

Take care,

Joe