Check engine light on and code P2191

Tiny
LESQUENAZI
  • MEMBER
  • 2013 KIA SPORTAGE
  • 2.0L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 255,000 MILES
So check engine light has been on for a while now. OBD2 scanner says it's a P2191 code. That's a real general code that reads "system too lean at higher load bank 1."
I have gone over all the recommended areas to check as indicated all over the internet. I have replaced up and downstream O2 Sensors with OEM parts. Replaced gas cap. Replaced MAP sensor, turbo sensor. Replaced EGR valve, high pressure fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump assembly filter and more. Catalytic converter is not clogged I have looked over engine for obvious vacuum leaks and nothing. I am very interested to hear if any of you have run into this issue and what you did to resolve. Please help.
Monday, March 22nd, 2021 AT 9:37 AM

31 Replies

Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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Good afternoon,

This code usually indicates that the system is running lean.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/repair-lean-mixture-codes-p0171-or-p0174-on-some-manufacturers

If you have a scan tool, can you tell me the long-term trim percentage? This will tell me if you have a vacuum leak.

Roy

Engine Control
P2191 System too Lean at Higher Load (Multiple) (Bank 1) - General Information

General Description

In order to provide the best possible combination of drivability, fuel economy and emission control, the PCM uses a closed loop air/fuel metering system. The PCM monitors the HO2S signal voltage and adjusts fuel delivery based it in closed loop fuel control. Changes in fuel delivery will be indicated by the long-term and the short-term fuel trim values. The ideal fuel trim value is around 0%. The PCM will add fuel when the HO2S signal is indicating a lean condition. Additional fuel is indicated by fuel trim values that are above 0%. The PCM will reduce fuel when the HO2S signal is indicating a rich condition. Reduction in fuel is indicated by fuel trim values that are below 0%. The DTC relevant to fuel trim will be set when the amount reaches excessive levels because of a lean or rich condition.

DTC Description

If the lambda controller reaches the maximum or minimum threshold, then feedback control is no longer possible and emissions will be increased. The PCM sets DTC P2191 if no proportional post catalyst fuel trim adaptation occurs for a defined time after the lambda controller has reached its maximum threshold at part load.

Engine Control
P2191 System too Lean at Higher Load (Multiple) (Bank 1) - Inspection/Repair:_:W/Harness Inspection

Check intake/exhaust system for leakage

1. Visually/physically inspect the air leakage in intake/exhaust system for the following areas:
- Vacuum hoses for splits, kinks and improper connections.
- Throttle body gasket.
- Gasket between intake manifold and cylinder head.
- Seals between intake manifold and fuel injectors.
- Exhaust system between HO2S and Three way catalyst for air leakage.
2. Was a problem found in any of the above areas?

image

3. Inspect the leakage in EVAP. system for the following conditions:
(1)Remove the manifold side vacuum hose from the EVAP canister purge valve.
(2)Using a hand vacuum pump apply specified vacuum(Approx. 15 in, Hg) to the manifold side of the valve.
(3)Does the valve hold vacuum?

image

Sensor Inspection

NOTE:
Refer to "Signal Waveform & Data" in the "General Information" procedure.

1. Visually/physically inspect the front HO2S for the following conditions:
- Ensure that the HO2S is securely installed.
- Silicon contamination. This contamination will be indicated by a white powdery coating on the portion of the sensor exposed to the exhaust stream and this will result in a but false(high) voltage signal.
- Fuel, engine coolant or oil contamination.
- Use of improper sealant.
- If contamination is evident on the HO2S, Fix the source of the sensor contamination before replacing the sensor to prevent future contamination. Go to "Verification of Vehicle Repair" procedure.
2. Visually/physically inspect the MAFS for the following conditions:
- Contamination or deterioration.
- Poor connection or damaged harness.
3. Check for an intermittent TPS1 false signal. TPS1 signal displayed on a GDS should increase steadily when depressing accelerator pedal after starting.
4. Verify that the PCM ground connections are clean and properly tightened.
5. If test result is NG, repair or replace as necessary and go to "Verification of Vehicle Repair" procedure.
If OK, go to next step as below.

NOTE:
If the contamination is evident on the HO2S or MAFS. Fix the source of the sensor contamination before replacing the sensor to prevent future contamination.

Positive Crankcase Ventilation System Inspection

1. Check the engine oil level. The oil level should be between the min. and max. marking. Fill to the correct oil level.
2. Check crankcase ventilation valve for improper installation, damaged o-rings and malfunctioning.
3. Warm up the engine to normal operating temperature.
4. Connect GDS and note the "SHORT TERM FUEL-B1" parameter on the GDS data list.
5. Disconnect and plug the positive crankcase ventilation at the intake manifold side.
6. Monitor the "SHORT TERM FUEL-B1" parameter on the GDS data list once again.

Specification :The value should remain more or less unchanged

7. Is the displayed value within the specified value?

image

Fuel System Inspection

1. Fuel Line Pressure Inspection
(1)Check the fuel for excessive water, alcohol, or other contaminants. Replace contaminated fuel as necessary.
(2)Install a fuel pressure gage.
(3)Inspect fuel pressure with normal idle status.

Specification :338 - 348kPa(3.45 - 3.55kg/cm2)

(4)Is fuel pressure within the specified value?

image

image

2. Fuel Pressure Hold Inspection
(1)Stop the engine and check for a change in the fuel pressure gauge reading.

Specification :After engine stops, the gauge reading should hold for minimum 5 minutes

(2)Is fuel pressure within the specified value?
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Monday, March 22nd, 2021 AT 10:55 AM
Tiny
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Thanks for the quick response. Unfortunately, my scan tool only provides short term trim values. I think it's time I invest in a better scan tool. It does show some live data but no long term trim.
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Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021 AT 6:33 PM
Tiny
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You know after reading your notes something does come to mind that could be causing this code. Recently, Kia replaced the engine due to recall. When I got the car back I revised all fluids and belt etc. I noticed that the oil level was high and I questioned them about it. They looked at me like I was crazy, checked it, and told me that's how its supposed to be. Well I've never gotten an oil change from them and gotten an above max reading on dipstick before. This might be the reason for the code. Do you think it's possible that my PCV is getting oil in it and causing this vacuum issue? But that would cause less air and a rich code wouldn't it cause oil would clog or restrict air passage. Your notes above mention checking that and got me thinking. What do you think?
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Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021 AT 6:45 PM
Tiny
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No to the high oil level.

The reason I asked for the long term is to see if it is running lean. That would lead me to believe there is a fuel delivery issue.

Roy
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Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021 AT 6:57 PM
Tiny
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I will buy a better scan tool check long term trim values and let you know what I get.
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Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021 AT 7:04 PM
Tiny
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Okay, keep us updated.

Roy
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Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021 AT 7:13 PM
Tiny
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Yes thank you for your prompt attention.
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Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021 AT 7:16 PM
Tiny
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We are always glad to help.

Roy
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Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021 AT 7:22 PM
Tiny
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So I purchased a better scan tool and I ran a check on long term fuel trim and it fluctuates between 26 and 28 at idle. Is that at or around normal?
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Sunday, April 18th, 2021 AT 3:54 PM
Tiny
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No, not at all. It should close to 0 and maybe about -3 to about +4.

You have a vacuum leak somewhere causing this. Get some carburetor cleaner spray and with the scan tool hooked up and the engine running, spray it were the intake manifold meets the head. If the readings change, the intake manifold gasket is leaking.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/repair-lean-mixture-codes-p0171-or-p0174-on-some-manufacturers

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/replace-intake-manifold-gasket

Roy
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Sunday, April 18th, 2021 AT 4:27 PM
Tiny
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In November Kia replaced the motor due to engine seize and was under a factory recall. (Thank you Kia) however when they returned the car to me it had this code. (P2191) I returned it the next day and they replaced the intake manifold gasket thinking that was the cause for code. I'll take your advice and do carburetor cleaner procedure. See what happens. Will my turbo be okay with carburetor cleaner spray?
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Sunday, April 18th, 2021 AT 4:40 PM
Tiny
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Yes, it will.

Roy
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Sunday, April 18th, 2021 AT 4:48 PM
Tiny
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Okay, thank you for the assistance.
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Sunday, April 18th, 2021 AT 4:54 PM
Tiny
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You are welcome.

Always glad to help.

Roy
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Sunday, April 18th, 2021 AT 5:01 PM
Tiny
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Is it a possibility that my evap system could be causing this lean code?
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Monday, May 10th, 2021 AT 11:48 AM
Tiny
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No, it would cause a rich code if fuel vapors leaked into the intake system.

Roy
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Monday, May 10th, 2021 AT 12:26 PM
Tiny
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Okay, thanks.
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Monday, May 10th, 2021 AT 1:57 PM
Tiny
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Okay, so smoke test done on evap system and no leak detected. All air intake checked for leaks and none found. Fuel pump is putting out good pressure but quickly drops after turning engine off. Going to replace fuel pressure regulator in the fuel pump assembly and see if this is good fix for P2191. Thoughts?
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Wednesday, May 26th, 2021 AT 2:04 PM
Tiny
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I would replace the entire pump assembly, not just the regulator. The regulator is part of the pump assembly. If you have it out, I would just replace it.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-replace-an-electric-fuel-pump

With the pressure bleeding back as it is, there is a good chance it is the check valve in the pump itself, not the regulator.

Roy
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Wednesday, May 26th, 2021 AT 2:42 PM
Tiny
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Okay, and I have a new pump in the box. There are only two differences in the part in box as compared to existing assembly. The sending unit looks a little different but I am sure the functionality will be good on it. Then on top there are two electrical connectors which they both have. There is a three prong connector and a four prong pyramid shaped connector. The difference is in the pyramid connector. My existing pump assembly pyramid connector has four prongs in it and new pump assembly pyramid connector has five prongs on it. Do you think that will make it not function properly? My parts source has been very consistent in the past 10 plus years in providing parts that fit and work good. What are your thoughts please? Thank you in advance.
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Wednesday, May 26th, 2021 AT 5:46 PM

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