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Lost communication with CAN?

Tiny
TAYLORRAY1986
  • MEMBER
  • 2013 FORD F-150
  • 5.0L
  • V8
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 165,000 MILES
When I first got the truck the front passenger side had major collision damage. After doing the necessary body work the truck ran fine. Drove it for about 2 weeks with no real problems other then it had an unusually rough idle and the check engine light was on. Before I was able to check the engine light it rained. A lot. I drove in the rain and it sat in the rain, no garbage etc. Drove it home fine, them several hours later went to start the truck and it would not start. It would crank all day but not turn over. After about a day and a half of looking for a short, disconnecting and reconnecting several wiring connectors, and unplugging the negative battery cable for awhile untried to start it and it worked. Started right up which I though was because the truck dried out or maybe had a bad connection that got cleaned when I dis an re connected it. Then after another couple weeks I washed afterwards the engine light had said misfire number 8. Replaced plugs and coil packs but still said it was misfiring and idling rough then I washed the truck and again. Crank no start. I've spent almost a week now looking for a short or something. I've tried almost everything but still wont start. Also I took the instrument control panel, HVAC and radio, steering wheel, and dash side wiring harness from the cab off a 2014 xlt to 4x4 to put in my 2wd stx. Now the ICP is throwing network codes. I've flashed my BCM, PCM, IPC and now Pat's has me locked out and it wont even turn over now. I do not know if I should go back to the crappy base model trim or what my problem is. Please help as I need to go to work in a couple days and I can't.
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Wednesday, October 16th, 2019 AT 9:43 PM

28 Replies

Tiny
BMDOUBLE
  • MECHANIC
  • 1,139 POSTS
Can you give us the codes that you retrieved for the BCM, PCM, IPC? This will help me determine your next step. Also these trucks have issues with the fuel pump fuse and the fuel pump driver module, which could have been your problem all along.
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:15 AM
Tiny
TAYLORRAY1986
  • MEMBER
  • 17 POSTS
All fuses and relays ohmed out, and none were burnt.
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
TAYLORRAY1986
  • MEMBER
  • 17 POSTS
Codes.
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,610 POSTS
That's a lost CAN system! I dont think any of the flashing of the worked and none of the module are talking. Off to the dealer for a complete re-flash they will load it from the Ford network database. Please let us know what happens.
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
TAYLORRAY1986
  • MEMBER
  • 17 POSTS
I towed it to the Ford dealership Thursday, started on it Friday. I explained all I'd done to it and "slightly suggested" doing a re-flash but seeing as how they're paid by the hour they decided to chase wires instead.
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
BMDOUBLE
  • MECHANIC
  • 1,139 POSTS
Yes as Ken noted, a reflash because the modules don't recognize each other. The PATS system needs to go through a parameter reset after all of the modules have the programmable module installation done so that they all have the VIN number programmed into them, then the parameter reset will have them all doing a high five, so to speak. Then they can find whatever circuit issue may or may not be present. I'm a senior master Ford tech and I get these all of the time from other shops and it's fun to say the least!
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
TAYLORRAY1986
  • MEMBER
  • 17 POSTS
How do I politely emphasize to my current Ford technicians to encourage them to heed this advice and start with reprogramming the modules instead of trying to trace a short? I don't want to be rude and then get overcharged, but I also need to get rolling ASAP. Also, the corner of my hood, right below the windshield, above the PCM, is bent from the accident. Could that and the shock of the wreck have inevitably led to water and/or impact damage to the PCM causing it to fail? Just curious. I'll post a picture of what the truck looked like when I got it.
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
BMDOUBLE
  • MECHANIC
  • 1,139 POSTS
Just have a one on one with the tech because he may not know the whole story, this happens to me all of the time and I wished that the customer would have given me the lowdown on the the vehicle because service advisers will not do that or will not translate the story correctly.
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
TAYLORRAY1986
  • MEMBER
  • 17 POSTS
Okay, I just got a call from the Ford house and they're saying I have to revert the back the way it was with the old ICP in order for it to work. This makes no sense to me whatsoever considering that I drove the truck 600 miles over the course of a week with the new ICP I salvaged from the 2014 xlt.
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
TAYLORRAY1986
  • MEMBER
  • 17 POSTS
Update:
I talked to the Ford tech and he said it is receiving the pats code from the ICP and BdyCm but not from the PCM. He is also saying that it's not finding the APIM on the network and that if the ICP can't talk to the APIM it wont work. My truck originally didn't have sync, now it does. Considering the facts, all of my problems started with water and the PCM isn't is having communication issues, would it. Would it be a safe bet to assume that the PCM got fried last time it got wet and is fried? They're saying that I have no option but to revert my truck back to 2013 stx originality. I think it's just a fried PCM. Thoughts?
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,610 POSTS
Yes, if water got to the PCM it is no good and needs to be replaced. This is an unusually rare problem one in which the Ford tech does not see often. Please let us know what happens. Can you see water damage? Also have you told the tech the PCM had water?
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
TAYLORRAY1986
  • MEMBER
  • 17 POSTS
I don't see any apparent water damage. Yes, I told the tech everything. They're saying that the BCM is getting a transceiver code from the pats system saying that the ICP is getting the code, and sending ti to the BCM, but not the PCM. They're saying though that because I upgraded my trim level they can't reprogram the PCM to match the ICP because the ICP is from a 2014 xlt and tne is a 2013 xl. So they when they pull the VIN from ids it's only loading the as built for the base model xl and they wont load the parameters from a different trim level into my PCM. Ultimately they're telling me they won't program anything because nothing will work until I revert the truck back to the base model trim level. Which means taking out the ICP, GPSM, APIM, HVAC, steering wheel, radio, and body harness and putting all original back on the truck. I have none of that except the radio and HVAC. So I couldn't even if I wanted to.
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
KEN L
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  • 47,610 POSTS
Hmm. That's a good one. BMDOUBLE works at the dealer lets see what he says.
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
TAYLORRAY1986
  • MEMBER
  • 17 POSTS
Yes, I agree. I'm anxious to know how he would handle this situation. On another note, I believe that the tech is willing to try reprogramming with new parameters but it's his superiors who aren't wanting to allow as they're calling my truck a custom truck. My tech, Randall has been really helpful and understanding and the service rep, Mark says even though they spent two days on the truck he is only charging me the $80.00 diagnostic fee. He also said if I leave it there and bring them a new PCM he won't charge me to reprogram it. I'm grateful but I don't think it would matter if they flash or not without adding in the new modules. Really regretting ever changing anything, I was just trying to make my truck a little bit nicer.
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
BMDOUBLE
  • MECHANIC
  • 1,139 POSTS
I've been in this position many many many times as a Ford tech and he is correct by saying that the IPC needs to be from the original build sheet as well as all of the other modules that were swapped out. It compounds the diagnostic step by step procedure when the as built data info from each module do not coincide! Very very important to take it back to stock form and then they can proceed, even if one of these modules have failed, at least the VIN info will be correct and not hinder programming or diagnosis of the other modules. You can take an IPC from another truck and the vehicle will actually run but will give other modules problems when it comes to programming. I don't believe that the PCM is fried due to the vehicle running, I do believe that the VIN mismatch errors are causing these issues. In other words the tech is being held back by VIN mismatch issues and is not able to get to the root of the problem!
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,610 POSTS
Great info BMDOUBLE, makes sense.
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
TAYLORRAY1986
  • MEMBER
  • 17 POSTS
Update: so at the dealer they couldn't do anything so I towed the truck home. I reinstalled everything, body harness, every module, everything back the way it was from the factory. I also bought the VCM II from Bosch, not a china clone, and the FJDS 2 day software license from from ford. I've tried my. Pcm and a refurbished one and every time I go to program the PCM it shuts the truck off and won't read it and after trying the wake up the PCM it finally gives up and the truck comes back on. I also still cant get my abs, RCM, or PSCM to come back online. Please advise. Oh, and I got the OEM factory wiring diagrams well.
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,610 POSTS
The network needs to be programmed and tested, this is like installing the operation program for windows, going to take some work. I would make sure you have all the stock parts and head back to the dealer. They will need to load the operation software from the Ford database.
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
TAYLORRAY1986
  • MEMBER
  • 17 POSTS
I already put all of the stock parts back on the truck, wiring harness, HVAC, ICP. The whole 9. It's just the BCM hasn't stored the PCM Id and when doing the PMI the PCM wont go through with the installation. I understand the concerns for going to the dealer, but I have everything the dealer does? AsBlt data from ETIS, VCM II, FORD FJDS. I'm not against going to the dealer, just out of money.
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
TAYLORRAY1986
  • MEMBER
  • 17 POSTS
Everything else looks good. And the PCM did pass pinpoint test QA.
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Saturday, January 16th, 2021 AT 10:16 AM

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