Low but hard brake pedal

Bled the ABS sort of. Bled right front, then right rear, got a message from the scanner “evac and fill status not performed “ haven’t found anything about this in Autel’s database. A lot points to the right rear. First the frozen e brake lever on. Then the manual bleed is different .. no bubbles but the fluid comes out into the tube pedal to the floor then the fluid retreats. All the rest the fluid fills the tube after a few pumps all the way to the bottom of the bottle.
Now the error message during the ABS bleed .
What am I not seeing?

Can we step back just so I understand what you did so that we don't go in the wrong direction?

Just to be clear, you unhooked all the lines from the master and blocked them off so that only the master was in play and the pedal was normal.

Then you hooked the lines back up and the pedal drops and is hard? So you eliminated it being the master as it operated normally when all the lines were off, correct?

If that is the case, then we need to hook the lines back on one at a time until we find the leg of the system that is causing this.

However, with those two codes it looks like the ABS module is the issue. So here is the testing for the C1082 as it appears to be the primary code for this issue.

If your tool is able to perform the ABS verification test after the booster sensor and circuit prove out then that will confirm the module is the issue.

Hi KASEKENNY1,

Yes, I did plug both brake line ports on the master and got a normal pedal. I put the brake lines back and did a quick bleed and was back to low and hard.
I then clamped off the brake hoses at each caliper and still had a low hard pedal.
I will plug the master ports one at a time and see if tells us anything.
Thanks for the code diagnostics.
To be honest I have a hard time understanding how vacuum comes into play here. But swapping out vacuum sensor is cheaper and easier than swapping out the ABS.
Question ABS module . Hydraulic control module or electronic control module ?
Not sure about the ABS verification test, new tool, but will research.
You guys are great!

Sounds great. Thanks for the update.

Are you asking which your vehicle has or what it is called? You have an ABS module and a hydraulic control unit.

I attached some info on this below if you are interested in it.

Wow, thanks again for you quick response.
I tried to bleed the ABS again with the same results. I repeated the test several times only to have the battery drain out.
Now I have a code u000288.
Vac c bus perf off and C210016 battery circuit low.
My jump pac has an alternator test feature and reported the alternator to be fine.
I removed the battery to find it was the original Dodge battery so I replaced it.
Dodge battery number did not match any known battery groups so I matched it up by size and terminal position.
Not exact but close enough.
Next move is to clean all grounds as the remote jumper negative terminal was badly rusted I had to use a different ground point to jump start the vehicle .

Also I am leaving for my local you pull it for the two sensors I have codes on
Vac pressure and multi access acceleration sensor
$12.00 a pop will make testing reasonable.
Then back to see if anything changed.
Thanks again

Thanks for the info.
Warm day in Pittsburgh Pa 60’s and sunny not bad for March.

Went to the U pic it today and got a vacuum pressure sensor Was tempted by the whole ABS unit but no way to cross reference part number.
So much for the right to repair.

Meanwhile back at the Dodge plugged each port of the master separately
Front port plugged high hard pedal.
Rear (firewall) plugged low hard pedal.
Spent a good bit of time following brake lines to no avail.
No way of knowing what comes out from the HCU. A diagram of the hydraulic circuit would be nice but nothing on the net or Alldata.
Tomorrow will do the diagnostic for the C1082.
Cleaned grounds cables and installed new battery.
Be safe and well all.

Hi guys. Are you aware the rear calipers do not self-adjust like front ones normally do on all cars? This was on of Chrysler's first attempts at switching over to the really miserable caliper design used by GM and Ford for decades where the parking brake is built into the calipers. It sounds to me like the right rear parking brake cable is rusted tight, so that one never applies. You have to apply the parking brake repeatedly to adjust these calipers. That can also be done at the wheel by applying the lever repeatedly with a large pliers.

Thanks for the input.
Replaced both rear calipers and pads.
Pistons are tight against the pads.
Be well.

Brake lines at the HCU.

Just to clarify what the current state is because it appears you limited it to the rear circuit. Did you replace the HCU and fix it or are you in the process of replacing it? Thanks

Got to add a quick comment. The pistons only move out about 1/32" when the brakes are applied, so a visual inspection won't show if the calipers are adjusted. Based on the observation the right parking brake doesn't apply, it suggests that cable is rusted tight. If it is, that caliper will never adjust unless you do that manually with a large pliers. You have to work the parking brake lever on the back of the caliper repeatedly, by hand, but return-spring pressure is usually too strong to do that without the pliers.

The right parking brake was frozen in the on position
The cable was free however the lever on the caliper was frozen
Hence the new rear calipers and pads
The return spring is pretty easy to remove but you still need the vice grips to work the lever.
Everything is tight and I must have bled a half gallon of dot 3 threw the system and still have a low hard pedal
I believe that there is a stuck valve bad seal frozen solenoid in the ABS system
Appreciate the input be well

Near as I can figure the front brake line (low pedal) off the master controls the front left and right rear brakes
To state the obvious the rear line off the master (firewall side) (high hard pedal) controls the front right and rear left brakes.
Wish I could find a illustration of the hydraulic circuit somewhere
Lose the brake line tracing at the firewall and just before the rear lines split off

I am somewhat confused by KASEKENNY1’s response about the “rear circuit” As far as I am aware brake circuits are split diagonally. The effect of the proportioning valve ( I assume it is done by the ABS computer) baffles me also.
I believe that there is a problem HCU with a stuck valve, bad seal, stuck solenoid.
I returned to basics yesterday and did another manual bleed and another ABS bleed. Manual bleed went well ABS not so much ABS bled right front then right rear. Got the same evac and filled status not performed message and could not proceed to the left side brakes
Was hoping if I could get through the ABS bleed that something would break free.
I am looking for a decent price and quality on a HCU. Dealer preferred but expensive used just a shot in the dark considering sending mine out to be rebuilt but have no info on any of these companies

Just to keep me busy I wanted to do another test drive and no start. Nothing happens using the regular start procedure park brake push button
If I leave off the brake push the button to the run position I can shift into neutral then pus the start button and with the help off a jump back can get a very slow 4 second crank.
Get a battery light and an occasional vehicle not in park message when it is park but not when it is in neutral.
Did I mention brand new battery charged overnight?
Wanted to hit the starter with a hammer can’t even see it.
Buried under the cat and motor mount bracket.
Can’t thank you guys enough for your time knowledge and “schooling me”.
Be safe and well.

Sounds like you are on the right path. At this point, I would be replacing the HCU as well. You are correct that they are split diagonally. I said rear just has habit as most people don't get this in depth.

Also, while I am not one to go to a used part first, in a situation like this as long as the seller provides some sort of return process in the event of new issues, it may make sense. The only reason is these are not a common failure and a used part is tested so the cheaper price may get you out ahead of the game. Clearly it is a risk but as I said, that is minimized if they have some sort of warranty. I would not buy an as is part with no return. Those are almost always junk.

KASEKENNY1,

Dodge does not make it easy when it comes to part numbers.
My son told me that as soon as Dodge has an updated part number they erase all reference to prior numbers and compatibility.
My parts number is P68171432AC.


The closest I can find is on eBay The part number is P68171432AD.

Even this close I am hesitant I did email the seller.
If you haven’t noticed I am a firm believer that the devil is in the details. The part carries a 60 day warranty with the option for a 1 year protection plan for an additional $20.00 that I haven’t looked into yet.
I am not sure if this unit would be plug and play or requires programming by the dealership.
Thanks guys

Can you provide the last 8 of your VIN and I will look the part number up? Those part numbers are not coming up in Mopar's system so let's see if we can get the current number.

As for previous parts, that is true to a point but all that happens when they supersede the part is made some change to either the part or combined part numbers. However, I can look to see if any dealers have any of the part numbers.

last eight of the VIN is DT507329.

Thanks

Part number according to Mopar for your HCU is 68164594AA.

I am showing a lot of dealers having one in stock but Mopar's depots have a lot as well so they are readily available. However this number can be cross referenced to after market options as well.

Let me know if you have other questions. Thanks

KASEKENNY1, would you be able to recommend an aftermarket supplier or a rebuild shop with a quick turnaround?
I found an exact match on eBay but it is in Lithuania. lol

Hi guys. I noticed a discussion on part numbers earlier. To clarify that, we always go by application. In the case of "68164594AA", that was the original design. If any change is made whether it's to those coming down the assembly line or to modules sent in to be rebuilt, it will get a new part number. It will be the same numbers, but they'll end with "AB". The next revision gets numbered "AC". In the case of car radios, the revision can be as insignificant as replacing a transistor with one that's just slightly more tolerant of heat build-up. That transistor would get replaced on every one of that model that gets sent in for repair, even though they never actually caused a failure. That's one of the advantages of getting a rebuilt electronic part vs. a good used one.

The next problem is Chrysler has always had a reputation for good parts interchangeability between models and years. In the case of sensors in particular, what they currently have for a new car model might not fit because the connector will bump into something. That connector will be redesigned, but then it gets an entirely new part number. This was the case with oil filters in the early '70s. You could use the standard long one or the new shorter one on any engine, but the mounting flange was angled rearward on the Darts because of the smaller engine bay. The longer filter rubbed against the firewall when it was unscrewed. This was another example of what worked for the application wasn't necessarily the part number listed.

The same is true for computer modules. Ford is famous for making major mid-model-year changes, and you have to supply the build date when ordering parts. Chrysler makes mid-year changes too, but while some parts warrant new part numbers, they all still work on all cars from that model year. Up to the mid '90s, if they found a problem that needed to be fixed, the only way to do that was to replace the computer. Typically that involved a recall after they found some unusual event that resulted in emissions exceeding mandated levels.
The dealers were supplied with the new computers with their new part numbers. If you found an older one in a salvage yard, it would still work in that application. That's why we say to go by the application, not the part number. Starting in the mid '90s, even as early as 1993 in the case of my Dynasty, updates and recalls were handled by installing updated software rather than replacing the entire computer. I've noticed on GMs and Fords, when that is done, the mechanic puts a sticker under the hood referring to a "campaign" that was performed, meaning a recall. Chrysler supplies a replacement sticker to put on the computer. It has the new part number on it. Here again, different number, same application.

I suspect no one ever produced a cross reference chart because as far as the engineers and the lawyers are concerned, a computer with the old part number can't be used to replace one with a newer number. While it will function perfectly fine, we don't usually get to know why they don't want it in there. It could be some rarely-used function might not work correctly when it's really hot outside or really cold. It could be tail pipe emissions are too high when accelerating up a steep hill before the engine is fully warmed up. It could even be the air bags don't deploy if the crash is at a certain angle. With any corrections like those, the computer gets a new part number. If it's just a minor revision, as in the case of my Dynasty, to address any of ten common complaints of transmission shift quality, that doesn't even warrant a change in the part number. If a rebuilder changes a part for improved reliability, that would get the next higher letter in the suffix, but the original number would be the same.

Since you're looking at used computers, I have to add one more comment of value. This might not apply to a car as new as a 2013 model, but it's worth mentioning anyway. If your car has the factory-installed anti-theft system, you can use any used Engine Computer or Body Computer from any similar donor car. The anti-theft programming lives in those two computers. If the used computer you install doesn't have that programming, it is actually in there, but it hasn't been activated. That will be done by the other computer as soon as you turn on the ignition switch. At that point, that activated anti-theft programming can not be undone. If you take that replacement computer back out and put it in the donor car it came from, it is going to teach that programming to that car's other computer. At that point you'll have a crank / no-start because both computers are waiting for the "disarm" signal that's never coming. Now the only way to solve that car's no-start is to replace both computers at the same time with two that never had the anti-theft programming activated. We usually don't know that with cars in a salvage yard. The only way to know for sure is to buy two rebuilt computers from the dealer. They always come with the anti-theft programming not activated.

By 2013, most models included a factory anti-theft system. This warning applies to models as far back as some '92 models.

Hey CARADIODOC,

I did take a good look at that part number also. Was a lower number and letter combination that is on my 2013. I did some looking both on the internet (mopar.com) and with my local dealer. Joey the parts lady is super.
For whatever reason 68164594AA was listed. Forget eBay some listed relevant part numbers while others listed numbers in a different format that I have never seen. They. did include an application reference on their individual pages. Seemed to accurate but the devil is in the details.

I even called Cardone. They did not want to talk to me and referred me to local dealers. However they were kind enough to try to find me parts numbers. No cross reference..
UPDATE what has worked for me is a quality auto salvage. Donawitz Auto Parts in my case. 1800-248-1032. They were able to check compatibility The HCU and ABS Module are listed separately. The ABS module has a different compatibility than the the HCU. The ABS Module was compatible from 2012 up while the HCU started at 2010.
I complete unit off a 2013. Lucked out had the exact part number as my original.
Looked into having to have the ABS Module reprogrammed. Found out if I use my current ABS Module with the newly purchased HCU reprogramming is not necessary.
Problem replacing the solenoid valve seals and o ring is easy if you can find them. Found 6 out of 12 needed local. Luckily dodge has 8 in their warehouse. $3 a pop and $5 for the o ring. Be here tomorrow.

CARADIODOC Enjoyed the info on part compatibility.
On a side note doing rear pads on a 2006 Civic Ebrake calipers are a little different than the Dodge hope they are less problematic than the dodge..
Thanks, you guys rock!

Well, the fun continues.

Installed the HCU but no improvement.
Went to install the new master only to find the reservoir would not fit.
Nobody would hire me by the hour.
Couldn’t make a living flat rate.
Be well all.

Okay, checking Dorman’s site and finding a photo of my unit but fitment is for a 2014 Journey.
They do cross reference to OEM.
Dodge site shows and lists a different number.
When I searched the Dodge site for the Dorman number it brings up a match to my unit and lists it for my 2013 but no pic.
So at least I have a line on the the proper master.
I opened the 5fh quart of dot 3 for the HCU.
Might need a 6th.