Long Crank?

Tiny
TUKZ86
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  • 2000 MERCEDES BENZ C230
  • 2.0L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • MANUAL
  • 488,000 MILES
So, firstly the vehicle is a C230K, and sometimes the engine cranks for a while before starting, which by the way is one of those really slow almost not sure starts, and other times it starts first kick no problems.

Usually when it has the long cranking starts, there is a smell of fuel in the engine bay.

Please assist.
Monday, October 24th, 2022 AT 6:04 AM

23 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

If you smell fuel, that isn't good. When this happens, does the engine fire at all before fully starting? I ask because if you smell fuel, there could be either a fuel pressure issue or an ignition issue. If you smell fuel, there is a chance a leak may allow pressure to drop very low or there is no ignition spark to burn the fuel and allow the engine to run.

I want you to try something. Try this:

1) Turn the key from off to run (engine off) and count to 5.

2) Turn the key off and repeat step 1 a total of three more times.

3) See if the vehicle starts normally.

Let me know what you find.

Joe
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Monday, October 24th, 2022 AT 8:05 PM
Tiny
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Hi Joe,

There is no fire (I'm assuming you mean back fire), and also as far as Ignition is concerned, I have new spark plugs and Ignition coils installed. I checked each Spark plug while the engine was running (removed the coil and to see changes in RPM and held the Coil near the engine to see the spark jumping, and it did), and as such I'm content with Ignition.

As for fuel leak, have checked everywhere that I can get access to, and I can't see anything. The smell seems to be coming from the fuel Injector Rail.

Also, would like to add, after a length of time, the car seems to lose power somehow. Not a lot, but as it is Supercharged, it's like the Supercharger doesn't boost anymore. Also, this is very clear at full throttle, specifically at higher RPM. From around 4,000 RPMs, the engine bogs down, just doesn't really keep accelerating beyond 4,000 RPMs like it has been up to 4,000 RPMs.

On other Forums, they suggested the Fuel Regulator. Might that be an issue?

As for your suggestion, I will try that sometime today, and will give you feedback.

Thank you for your response, Joe.
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Monday, October 24th, 2022 AT 9:57 PM
Tiny
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Hi,

You are very welcome. Let me know what you find. Also, the fuel smell is a concern. It could be a regulator issue. I believe the regulator is vacuum operated. Check to see if there is any evidence of fuel being drawn through the vacuum hose.

I have a question. After a long crank to start it, have you ever noticed black or gray smoke from the exhaust?

Let me know.

Joe
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Tuesday, October 25th, 2022 AT 4:45 PM
Tiny
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Good day Joe,

I attempted as suggested, and the car started with no issues, and that includes no obvious smell of fuel.

The thing is though, in the mornings the car seems to start fine, but only after either a few repeated starts later in the day, or a start not long after turning the car off from a lengthier run time is the trouble happening. It's almost like the car produces both issues (long crank time, loss of boost pressure and therefore power) only when the engine is at operating temperature, and also if the car has remained not running for a few days.

From what I can tell from those two scenarios is that some component either gets hot and struggles to continue operating normally when it has been active for a long time, or that very component struggles to operate normally when it has not been active for a long time, and even then, only for a short time till the car eventually starts. It's awkward, I know.

In regards to the Fuel Regulator, would you have a location for me? I'll check it out today.

As for the smoke, none at all! I forgot to mention that the car was actually abandoned for nearly 6 Years, likely because of same issue. So, when I did eventually get it started, there was some grey smoke out the exhaust, but only then and never again. It's been two months since, and this issue has become quite evident now, and I'd also like to add a hesitation as well when flooring it on the list of symptoms, though again only when the engine is proper warm and at operating temperature.

I do really think it's the Fuel Regulator, the only other possibility being Crank Position Sensor. Oh, and also, no Engine Check Light.

Awaiting your reply.
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Tuesday, October 25th, 2022 AT 10:55 PM
Tiny
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Does the vehicle start normally performing what I mentioned at all times? If it does, then it is more likely that the fuel pressure drops off and requires the pump to repressurize the system.

As far as a regulator, it should be on the fuel rail. I attached the best pic I could find below. Let me know if that helps.

Joe

See pic below.
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Wednesday, October 26th, 2022 AT 4:42 PM
Tiny
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Hi Joe,

Yes, the car starts normally after performing the procedure stated above. The car seems to jerk as well after a while, so yes, I think it has to do with fuel pressure somehow. Thank you for the image, I have found it. I'll check it out and report back what I find before proceeding with repair. On that point, is there a way to test? Also, is there a way to repair it, or straight replacement is the only way to repair?

Regards.
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Wednesday, October 26th, 2022 AT 9:47 PM
Tiny
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Hi,

If it is bad, it will need to be replaced. Also, there will be a vacuum hose on it. Disconnect that hose and check to see if there is any evidence of fuel in the vacuum hose.

Here is a link that explains how to test fuel pressure and the regulator:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

Also, I attached the manufacturer's fuel pressure specifications below.

Let me know what you find.

Joe

See pic below.

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Thursday, October 27th, 2022 AT 5:00 PM
Tiny
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Wow! That is rather too extensive for my pocket.

But I get the gist of it. I think best way forward for me and my pocket is to replace, and then get feedback that way. Will let you know.

Also, apologies for the delayed response.
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Monday, October 31st, 2022 AT 12:36 AM
Tiny
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Hi,

Thank you for the update. Let me know what you find or if you have other questions.

Take care,

Joe
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Monday, October 31st, 2022 AT 5:34 PM
Tiny
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Hi Joe,

So, I acquired and installed the Fuel Regulator, and immediately there was a positive difference. The original fault (long cranking) disappeared, and she starts all the time first time every time. Power is nearly consistent every time regardless of conditions, but I say nearly because now, there is one new inconsistency: power delivery!

I can full throttle all the time, but soon as I hit around 4500 rpm, she bogs down. Worse still, I then lose supercharger pressure across the entire RPM range, even low RPM. Thing is though, once I turn the engine off and then on again - even if immediately, I regain supercharger boost pressure from idle but as before only up to 4500rpm, at which point she bogs down again and won't have the boost pressure till I turn it off again.

So yes, the Regulator was definitely a good huge step in the right direction, but we not quite there yet. I am not sure if this is normal though, as like I said it isn't actually my car and only drove it once many years ago before it was parked for 6 years. The owner is an old man, so I doubt he ever gets the RPM up there anyway, but I don't want to give back to him like that and hope that he never does take it up there.

I'm thinking fuel pump now. What do you think?

Regards.
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Monday, November 28th, 2022 AT 8:07 PM
Tiny
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Hi,

I would think fuel pump pressure would regenerate without turning the key off. To me, and this is a theory, it could be related to the mass air flow sensor.

If you disconnect the MAF, it should force the computer into preset mode. Try disconnecting it and check if it shuts off at 4,500.

Let me know.

Joe

See pic below.
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Monday, November 28th, 2022 AT 8:40 PM
Tiny
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Okay, I’ll give that a try. Is there anything specific I should be expecting to see?
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Tuesday, November 29th, 2022 AT 2:12 AM
Tiny
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If the sensor is faulty, the vehicle should go into a manufacturer's predetermined setting and run okay.

Let me know.

Joe
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Tuesday, November 29th, 2022 AT 6:40 PM
Tiny
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Oh, I see, okay. I just hope it won't turn on Engine Light though. I don't have a means to reset it.
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Tuesday, November 29th, 2022 AT 11:09 PM
Tiny
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If you disconnect it, the check engine light will come on. If you reconnect it, eventually it will turn off, but a scan tool would make that faster.

Joe
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Wednesday, November 30th, 2022 AT 5:40 PM
Tiny
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Oh alright, cool.

It isn't easy to recognize it though. Being the Kompresser version, the engine bay isn't quite like in that image above, and I don't really have as much time as I would like with the car. Will let you know though.
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Wednesday, November 30th, 2022 AT 11:19 PM
Tiny
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Hi,

Thanks for the update. When you have a chance to work on it, let me know. I'm interested in knowing the outcome.

Take care,

Joe
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Thursday, December 1st, 2022 AT 1:36 PM
Tiny
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Hi Joe. Sorry for the silence... You know, Christmas and all that jazz...

I have yet to attempt the unplug as stated above, but also when I started the car last time, I learnt it had a fuel leak, left side just ahead of the rear wheel. I found out it is a common issue with these cars, but I'm not sure what exactly is leaking. I’m planning to Jack it up and have a look.

Regards.
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Monday, January 2nd, 2023 AT 9:06 PM
Tiny
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Hi,

A fuel leak will certainly cause a delayed start. It could be a few things in that area. I attached an exploded view of the fuel tank and hoses so you have a reference.

Let me know what you find.

Take care,

Joe

See pic below.
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Tuesday, January 3rd, 2023 AT 7:44 PM
Tiny
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Got the pipe out, downstream of 90/11 on your image. Can’t really tell what’s damaged, so will just replace the hole rubber pipe and new clamps and will let you know.
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Tuesday, January 3rd, 2023 AT 10:22 PM

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