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The engine loses spark at idle and all speeds

Tiny
JOHN EDWARD
  • MEMBER
  • 1989 FORD F-250
  • 5.8L
  • V8
  • 4WD
  • MANUAL
  • 200,000 MILES
This causes the vehicle to buck while driving.
Saturday, March 12th, 2022 AT 7:56 AM

22 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,755 POSTS
Hi,

There could be a few different things causing this. The first thing that comes to mind is the hall effect sensor in the distributor is failing or there is a loose or damaged connector.

How did you determine it is losing spark? Did you try to retrieve diagnostic trouble codes?

If you haven't checked for codes, start there. The truck has an OBD1 system and doesn't require a scan tool to retrieve codes. Follow the directions in this link and let me know the results:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/ford-lincoln-mercury-obd1-1995-and-earlier-diagnostic-trouble-code-definition-and-retrieval

Let me know what you find. I will watch for your response.

Take care,

Joe
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Saturday, March 12th, 2022 AT 10:28 PM
Tiny
JOHN EDWARD
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Hi Joe. Thanks for the info. To start I think it is losing spark because just riding down the road when it starts to buck the tachometer will drop 500 RPMs and it bucks and immediately goes back where it was (say 2000 RPMs drops to 1500 then goes back to 2000). I just bought this truck I believe they have been trying to figure the problem out. The distributor looks brand new inside the coil has been replaced. New wires and plugs. The condenser was also replaced. When I went to set the timing the timing it jumps about 10 degrees in both directions. If I read the codes correctly they are 12, 18, 24, 33, 34. I should mention that the ignition key is stiff when I turn the switch to the start position and kind of sticks in that position (i had a ford taurus that did this, and the car would lose power going down the road I replaced the switch on the column and this fixed the problem). Have you run across this problem before?
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Sunday, March 13th, 2022 AT 9:51 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

I have experienced similar issues, but they always seem to require a different fix. The codes you have are all over the place. And yes, one deals with the ignition (SPOUT) system. Also, we have an EGR stuck closed, excessive back pressure in the exhaust, and the IAT (intake air temperature) sensor is out of range.

We need to determine where to start. I have a couple of questions. First, are the catalytic converters still on the vehicle, and do you ever notice any rattling from the exhaust?

Now, the spark issue will require a little bit of testing. The code, 18, indicates an issue with the spout (spark out). Since you indicated the timing was all over the place, I jumped to step 4 in the testing. Take a look at the pic below and let me know if you are comfortable doing it.

One other thing, locate the EEC relay in the under-hood fuse box. Switch it with a different relay having the same part number. Also, make sure the connectors in the box are in good condition.

Let me know.

Joe

See pic below.
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Sunday, March 13th, 2022 AT 4:11 PM
Tiny
JOHN EDWARD
  • MEMBER
  • 15 POSTS
Thanks Joe. I do feel comfortable doing these tests. I will try these tomorrow and let you know what I find out. I will also double check my obd1 readings.
Thanks again,
John
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Sunday, March 13th, 2022 AT 4:46 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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You are very welcome. Let me know what you find and hopefully, we can get it going for you.

Take care,

Joe
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Sunday, March 13th, 2022 AT 7:47 PM
Tiny
JOHN EDWARD
  • MEMBER
  • 15 POSTS
Hi Joe, I went to double check the obd readings. Something is not looking right, the reading has changed. So, to be sure I have ordered a ford obd 1 code reader it should be here on the 17th. I will get back with you then and let you know what I find out.

Thanks for your help.

John
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Tuesday, March 15th, 2022 AT 7:00 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

Thanks for the update. Let me know what you find out using the scan tool. I'm interested in knowing.

Take care,

Joe
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Tuesday, March 15th, 2022 AT 1:18 PM
Tiny
JOHN EDWARD
  • MEMBER
  • 15 POSTS
Hi Joe. Thanks, I will.

Thanks,

John
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Tuesday, March 15th, 2022 AT 1:28 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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John,

I haven't heard from you for a couple of days. Have you been able to make any progress?

Joe
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Thursday, March 17th, 2022 AT 2:23 PM
Tiny
JOHN EDWARD
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Hi Joe, I just got the code reader. The code came back11 nothing wrong. When I did the test with engine running it said that the truck was a 6 cylinder and gave me 2 codes 41 and 77. Is it possible for the truck to run if someone changed the ECM.
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Thursday, March 17th, 2022 AT 3:10 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

It could run, but how well is a different question. Code 41 indicates a lean fuel mixture and the 77 is a code related to a self-test. Have you ever have these codes before?

Let me know. Also, where did it indicate the six-cylinder engine?

Let me know.

Joe
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-1
Thursday, March 17th, 2022 AT 3:40 PM
Tiny
JOHN EDWARD
  • MEMBER
  • 15 POSTS
Hi Joe. I ran to the code reader in the engine running key on. When I started it. It came up cylinder 6. Then it gave me a 41, then 77. When the engine is idling it has a surge like a bad vacuum leak but I have not been able to find one.
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Thursday, March 17th, 2022 AT 4:22 PM
Tiny
JOHN EDWARD
  • MEMBER
  • 15 POSTS
This is a pic of code reader.
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Thursday, March 17th, 2022 AT 4:36 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

Could that indicate an issue with cylinder 6? Is the scan tool able to do any other tests? For example, can it tell you fuel trims?

Let me know.

Joe
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Thursday, March 17th, 2022 AT 6:35 PM
Tiny
JOHN EDWARD
  • MEMBER
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Hi Joe. To start I sent you a pic of the code reader. Through that away. Lol.I am so ready to pull my hair out. I have cleaned the connections between the obd connector and the reader. The only code I got was a 18. There is so many different things going on. I am about ready to fix it with a gallon of gas and a match. Lol no the reader has told me it was a 6 cyl and a 4 cyl. The engine runs too smoothly for it to be loosing a cyl. I am not a master tech. But I have been working on cars since I was 9. I am 60 now I have 42 years in the autobody business. I have been around cars along time I have to say it is so hard for me to type rather than to talk.
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Friday, March 18th, 2022 AT 4:58 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

Code 18 (KOER) indicates a timing issue related to the SPOUT. That is one of the first things we identified.

Try the test below and let me know what you find. Based on the findings, I need to determine what to check next.

Take care,

Joe
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Friday, March 18th, 2022 AT 7:05 PM
Tiny
JOHN EDWARD
  • MEMBER
  • 15 POSTS
Hi Joe, sorry it took so long to get back to you. Let's try this from the start again. I found the spout and checked it; it came back 0 ohms with it out I checked the timing the mark is holding solid at about 10 degrees btdc. With the spout disconnected I reran the code reader it came back code 11 and 11. I started the engine with spout unhooked and ran codes they came back in this order 8 cyl. 12, 21, 41, 18 and 77 I hope this makes sense to you. Thanks again, John
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Monday, March 21st, 2022 AT 1:19 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

The new codes are all over the place. As far as the 0 ohms, that indicates there is a connection with basically no resistance.

Code 21 and code 41 are interesting to me. The 21 indicates the engine coolant temp sensor is out of range (which could cause an air/fuel mixture issue) and the 41 indicates the system is always lean. We may have a very simple issue dealing with a weak fuel pump, an engine vacuum, or a faulty heated exhaust gas oxygen sensor (HEGO).

I attached two tests below. Let me know what you find.

Take care,

Joe

See pics below. Also, are these the only codes that were retrieved this time?
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Monday, March 21st, 2022 AT 7:52 PM
Tiny
JOHN EDWARD
  • MEMBER
  • 15 POSTS
Hi Joe. Yes, that was the only code. A friend of mine gave me a distributor I installed and reset the timing. The truck is running a lot better. Thank you for your time. Thanks again, John
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Tuesday, March 22nd, 2022 AT 4:27 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

I'm glad to hear you found the issue, and thanks for the update.

John, please feel free to come back anytime in the future if you have questions. You're always welcome here.

Joe
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Tuesday, March 22nd, 2022 AT 7:47 PM

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