How to check starter motor?

Tiny
SFCTRIPLETT57
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How do I check to make sure the right voltage to the starter motor? How do I check to make sure the starter works? Thanks

Larry Triplett
Iraq War Vet
US Army 1978-2014
Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021 AT 3:23 PM

15 Replies

Tiny
MHPAUTOS
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Hi Larry,

You need to test the starter and the starting circuit with a volt meter to ensure you have correct voltage. First check for battery voltage at the main battery cable attached to the back of the starter motor. This should have constant battery voltage (12 v). Second check for battery voltage at the solenoid wire at the starter motor (small wire) this should have battery voltage only with the key on crank. If no voltage check wiring from key ignition switch, if voltage and no crank inspect starter for faults. Below are several links to assist you with checking these systems.

Regards, Mark (mhpautos)

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/everything-goes-dead-when-engine-is-cranked
https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-voltmeter
https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-wiring
https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-a-starter-and-solenoid-works
https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-replace-a-starter-motor

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Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021 AT 5:05 PM
Tiny
SFCTRIPLETT57
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Thank you so much Sir.
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Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021 AT 5:16 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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Hi guys. Please allow me to add a few comments of value.

There's multiple tests. The first one depends on the symptom or problem. Some of the test results can be confusing and defy logic, so we usually go by the symptom instead. The best tests require a professional load tester to measure current flow through the starter.
MHPAUTOS got you started with the preliminary tests already, but this is where some of those confusing results can occur.

My main reason for sticking my nose in here is your starter has a very common failure with a somewhat easy fix. This is a little silver Nippendenso starter used by Toyota, and a little later by Chrysler. They develop burned-away solenoid contacts that cause an intermittent rather loud single clunk each time you turn the ignition switch to "crank", but it doesn't crank the engine. If you cycle the ignition switch off, then back to "crank" enough times, it will eventually work. That problem gets progressively worse and worse over many months.

The way to verify this is to start with measuring the voltage on the battery terminal on the starter solenoid, (red arrow). You'll find 12 volts there. That voltage will drop a little during cranking, but must not drop below 9.6 volts. If it does, suspect a corroded connection in that battery cable. Next, measure the voltage on the other solenoid terminal that goes to the starter motor, (blue arrow, under the blue rubber cap). You will find the same voltage on both terminals when the starter is cranking the engine. When the intermittent problem acts up, you'll find 0 volts, or very low voltage, at the blue arrow.

These voltage readings are easier to take if you use a pair of clip leads, (small jumper wires), to hook the voltmeter's test probes to the solenoid terminals so you don't have to hang onto them by hand. That makes testing these contacts a second way possible. To do that, connect one meter probe to each solenoid terminal, then see what you find for voltage. You will find 12 volts at first, meaning full battery voltage. When a helper tries to crank the engine, you will see that difference in voltage drop to near 0 volts if the starter / solenoid are working properly. If the defect occurs and the starter doesn't spin the engine, you will see the voltage stay closer to 12 volts. It is supposed to go to 0 volts during cranking because the solenoid switches the two contacts together. It's when those contacts are burned away that the switching action is impeded.

Most hardware stores and farm and home stores have repair kits for these starters. The problem is there are at least three versions of these starters, and it's easy to get the wrong kit. Included in the kits are the four contacts shown in the second photo, but not shown is the plunger that is included. Those have a copper contact disc that makes the connection between the solenoid contacts. They also have a shaft on them that pushes the drive gear into mesh with the ring gear during cranking. In the case of those starters used on Chrysler products, there's two different lengths of shaft on those plungers. The repair kits are listed for specific model years, but the starters as a complete assembly are completely interchangeable from one year or engine to another, so if a rebuilt starter was installed previously, you have no idea what year the current starter is from. That means there's no way to know which of the two kits to buy. Fortunately that contact disc is rarely burned or arced away to the point of needing to be replaced, so you can use the old plunger over. It's the contacts shown in the photo that must be replaced.

Four contacts are shown, but every solenoid uses only two of them. Here again, until you remove the cover, there is no way to know which of the three of them you need. The good news is the kits come with all four contacts. One is the "battery" contact because it has the battery cable bolted to it. That one is at the top left of the photo. It is the one used on all Chrysler and all Toyota starters. The other contact is bolted to the braided strap that runs under that blue rubber cover and into the starter motor, so it's called the "starter" contact. You have to look at the old contact, then match it to one of the new ones. It can be symmetrical, (the left one of the three), or offset to one side or the other. Those vary by the date the starter was manufactured. These repair kits cost around $12.00. If you have a starter / generator rebuilder company, you can buy just the contacts for around $3.00 ea. Every larger city has at least one of these companies. If you don't know where to find one, ask at any heavy truck or heavy equipment repair shop where they send their starters and generators to be rebuilt.

The same applies to these starters used on Toyotas, except they use a plunger that has a much longer shaft than the two used by Chrysler. I've never seen these plungers available in a repair kit or from the rebuilder companies. You'll rarely need to replace it, but if you do, they have to come from the Toyota dealer's parts department.
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Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021 AT 7:30 PM
Tiny
SFCTRIPLETT57
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Thank you, Sir, I have a question Does Amperage have anything to do with the starter working? I know that it has to be the correct voltage coming from batteries and the solenoid is this correct.
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Thursday, March 25th, 2021 AT 3:28 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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This is the confusion I referred to but didn't explain. To be fair, to explain this in the classroom takes a good hour, but only after we learn about generators. This is what also makes diagnosis difficult for experienced electrical experts.

Let me start by boiling down generators to the single most important concept. To generate voltage mechanically, you need three things. You need a piece of wire, a magnetic field, and most importantly, movement between the two. In generators, we use a coil of wire, an electromagnet, and we spin that electromagnet with the belt and pulley. The spinning electromagnet is called the "rotor", or the "field winding". We use that instead of a permanent magnet because we can adjust the strength of the magnetic field by how much current is sent through it. That's the job of the voltage regulator. That current is relatively small and is easy to control, as in 0 to 3 amps. As it spins, voltage, (electrical pressure), is "induced" into the stationary, or "stator" windings. To increase the maximum possible output current of a generator, all that is needed is to add one or two more loops of wire to each stator coil. The voltages in all the loops adds up, and just like in a water pipe, the more pressure you have, the more current it will cause to flow.

At first, a starter is the exact opposite of a generator. We have stationary coils, we push current through them to develop magnetic fields, then we get movement out of them. Here's the first half of the confusion. The common starter for an older GM or Ford V-8 engine as late as the 1990s would draw close to 300 amps when it first started cranking the engine, but you'd never see that on a professional load tester unless that starter was seized or something was causing it to be locked up, meaning no movement.

Once the starter motor gets up to speed, you have a coil of wire mounted to the housing, an electromagnet developed by the armature, and it's spinning. Those are the same three things needed in a generator. In other words, a spinning motor is a generator. What it generates is called "back electromotive force", or "back EMF". There is no way to measure that back EMF, but we can measure the effects it has. For my example, we'll say it develops four volts of back EMF. That four volts opposes the 12 volts supplied by the battery. In effect, only eight volts is running the motor, and current flowing out of the battery is only 200 amps. This is why if an engine is seized and you hold the ignition switch in the "crank" position too long, the battery cables will get hot very quickly. If the starter cranks the engine just fine, but you do that for a long time, the cables do not get very hot. During normal cranking, current flow is much lower once the motor gets up to speed.

Related to this, as the battery becomes discharged after prolonged cranking, its voltage goes down a few tenths of a volt. Lower voltage means reduced current to the starter. That means a slower cranking speed. With less movement, less back EMF is developed. With less back EMF to oppose battery voltage, current flow goes up. So now starter current goes up even though battery voltage is going down. At first that seems to disagree with "Ohm's Law". Those are a set of 12 formulas that relate volts, amps, resistance, and power to each other, and that is the first part of the confusion.

The second part of the confusion stems from there are actually two inter-related, but separate starter motors built into every one. Two brushes are needed to pass the current into and out of the moving armature, but every starter motor has four brushes. Each pair is passing current through part of the armature, but at different times. This results in twice the power without doubling the size or weight of the motor. For this story, each pair of brushes are passing 100 amps, making 200 amps total leaving the battery. That is the current we're measuring with the load tester. If the battery has been found to be good, and capable of supplying sufficient current, and that starter current is measured to be within the acceptable range, we'd conclude the starter is okay, at least in that respect. With these old, high-torque starters, a lot of force was placed against the bushings that armature rides on, often resulting in those bushings wearing away on one side. That allowed the armature to drag and slow down. Here's the neat thing about starter motors, which are "series-wound". That means whatever current flows through one coil has to flow through the other coil next. Think of a river that flows through one town, then through the next town. The same water flows through both places. "Parallel-wound" motors are typical of heater fans and radiator fans where they're designed to develop constant power, but they will change speed as voltage changes. This would be like the water in a river going around an island. A drop of water flows through one path or the other, never both.

In the series-wound motor that's up to speed, 200 amps determines the strength of the electromagnetic fields that are causing the rotational movement. As that motor is loaded down, movement becomes less, so back EMF becomes less. With less back EMF opposing battery current, that current goes up; we'll say to 250 amps. 250 amps makes for stronger electromagnetic fields, and therefore a stronger motor. The important point is, ... As you load down a series-wound motor, it gets stronger. A starter might draw 200 amps on a 350 c.I. Engine, but use it on a 454 c.I. Or a high-compression engine, and it might draw 280 amps while still cranking at the normal speed.

Now for the rest of this second confusing point. Those four brushes are going to wear away from use. At some point the first one will fail to make contact with the commutator bars on the armature. No current can flow through that half of the coils, so you're left with only the other part that's still working. Remember it was drawing 100 amps earlier, but now the overall strength of the motor is half of normal, rotational speed is cut way down, back EMF is much lower, so the battery current we can measure goes way up, often as high as 200 amps. 200 amps puts a normal strain on the battery which draws its voltage down during cranking. Design specifications always say that must never drop below 9.6 volts. In fact, that's part of what we look for during a battery test. We'll say in this story it's a really good battery and cranking voltage is around 10.5 volts, which is fine. You have acceptable, (normal), voltage, and normal current of 200 amps, but the starter is cranking very slowly. This is what makes this problem so hard to identify. Voltage and current are normal, but the customer is complaining of slow cranking speed. There's no way to test for that worn brush. We can only see the results of it, but then we have to be smart enough to figure out what's happening. Because this is so uncommon, it's why even experienced mechanics become confused.

I purposely left out Chrysler starters in this story. Starting in 1960, they used a gear-reduction assembly. That caused the armature to spin about four times faster than everyone else's direct-drive starters. As such, they developed a lot more back EMF. Overall torque was higher while current flow was lower. 150 amps was typical on a big 440 c.I. Engine. They even modified them for use on high-compression GM and Ford race engines until they developed their own high-torque starters.

Beginning in 1987, GM also went to a little gear-reduction starter design. As with your Nippendenso starter, you get a lot of power out of a little package.

Now that I shared all that great and wondrous wisdom, let me go back to those solenoid contacts I showed you in my last reply. There's two coils of wire inside the starter solenoid. Solenoids are bolted onto the starter motor or in yours and many other designs, it's built in. A typical 15 to 20 amps flows through those coils, then the electromagnetic fields draw in a metal plunger. A shaft I mentioned previously on the end of that plunger pushes the starter's drive gear into mesh with a ring gear on the flywheel, flex plate, or torque converter, (something that's attached to the crankshaft). Once that drive gear is fully-engaged, the plunger continues to the end of its travel, at which time a copper disc on it makes the connection to the two contacts. That switches on the 200 or more amps that flows through the starter motor. That's more current than what is used very often with a stick-type welder, and you know how much those arc. That same arcing occurs across the contacts every time the solenoid turns off. All contacts are going to burn away over time, but that happens a real lot faster with these starters. It's so common; that's why companies have produced repair kits for them.

Every time a starter solenoid is released at the end of cranking, that copper disc is designed to rotate on the plunger a little. That brings a fresh spot around for the next time to keep wear even all the way around. The problem is though, experience has shown those discs don't wear very much while the contacts wear real fast. Because those discs do rotate is why this always starts out as an intermittent problem. You turn the ignition switch to "crank", and you hear that nice solid clunk as the plunger engages the drive gear, but the current to the motor doesn't get switched on. Release the ignition switch, the plunger retracts, the disc rotates, then it does make contact the next time, and the engine fires up.

As the contacts develop deeper and deeper worn spots, the no-crank problem acts up more often. In the case of my mother's '95 Grand Caravan, she lost count after 700 tries and a blister on her thumb, but it did eventually crank. You can be sure I heard about it that night. I had ignored the problem for well over six months.

For my final comment of value, a lot of people remove starters to have them tested at an auto parts store, but that only shows whether they are capable of operating. Bench-testing is not accurate. With no load, dragging from worn bushings won't show up. With one worn brush, the motor will still operate like normal. The bigger problem is with no load on it, an older direct-drive starter is likely to draw less than 50 amps because it will be spinning so fast. They need to be tested under real-world conditions, meaning on the engine. That's where the problem is, so it doesn't make sense to take a part away from the problem to test it.

Some car brands and models are well-known to develop corroded cables under the insulation where you can't easily see it. We find that with voltage measurements while a helper is cranking the engine. If, lets say, 8- percent of the strands of wire are corroded apart, that's like using a cable that's only a small fraction of the diameter needed. It may still be able to pass 100 amps, but if the starter needs 300 to get it up to speed, that will never happen, even though that starter tested fine on the test-bench where it only needed 50 amps. By testing on the engine, the entire system gets tested, not just one part.
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Thursday, March 25th, 2021 AT 7:31 PM
Tiny
SFCTRIPLETT57
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The Toyota is a 1987 Pickup 4X4 with a 1993 22R-E engine the starter when cranked is hitting the flywheel on the outer edge of the flywheel. This is messing up the edge of the starter motor gear not fully engaging the flywheel. This is what has been done to the pickup as told to me by the owner of the pickup. The transmission is 87 with a transfer case. 1. The engine in the 87 pickup went bad and it was replaced with a 1993 22R-E engine.
The owner put a 1983 flywheel on a 1993 22R-E engine, he needed to put in a new clutch to replace the bad one. So, he tried to put a clutch made for a 1987 pickup it would not match up to the 83 flywheels. He took the parts back and got a 1993 clutch kit, this clutch kit would not match up to the 83 flywheels.
The only clutch kit that would work with the 83 flywheels, I am assuming this is when the starter motor went bad. He has tried 4 starter motors on the pickup. He used starter motors from 1983 to 1987 when you engage the starter motors, they would the outer edge of the flywheel and make marks on the starter motor gear.
I got a starter motor for the 1993 22R-E engine, I installed the starter motor, and the same thing happened the starter motor gear would barely hit the outer edge of the flywheel. There must be a simple problem that I am missing.
Thanks for your time.

Larry Triplett
Iraq War Vet
US Army 78-14
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Friday, March 26th, 2021 AT 3:23 AM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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This is not a simple problem. In fact, there are so many variables there's no way for the average guy to know how to approach this. Based on your original question, I thought I was helping you avoid an elusive solution by describing the most common failure for this starter. This is a mechanical problem, not an electrical one.

I do see there's about a half dozen different part numbers listed for an '87 model, depending upon automatic or manual transmission, 1.0kw or 1.4kw, and with or without optional equipment. There must be some significant difference between them, otherwise they wouldn't list all those things.

I can offer two suggestions that have a good chance of getting you the help you need. One is to visit a couple of Toyota dealerships and talk with some of their mechanics who would be familiar with the assortment of parts you described. If this were a '70s Chrysler product, for example, I know quite a few people who could tell you off the tops of their heads what would work.

The better suggestion is to post a new question with all the details in your last reply. Unlike other sites where anyone can chime in and confuse the issue, here, this became a private conversation between just the three of us. We could have another expert who knows exactly what to do, but they will never see this or have a chance to reply. They will see your new question. Here's the link to get you there quickly:

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/new

You don't have to retype everything. Just copy and paste your last reply and title it something like "Mechanical problem with starter". If you don't know how to copy and paste, I can help you with that. That will let you post a carbon copy of your reply in just a few seconds. I'll try to watch in the background if there's a comment of value I can add.
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Friday, March 26th, 2021 AT 4:02 PM
Tiny
SFCTRIPLETT57
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The truck is starting now but sometimes you can hear the starter just spin not starting the truck. If you turn the ignition off and try cranking it again it will start, this is a new starter motor. The engine is a 93 22R-E and the starter motor is for a 93 22R-E engine. So what now?
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Saturday, March 27th, 2021 AT 7:26 AM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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The two things I've run into years ago were a worn over-running clutch in the starter's drive gear, and the shaft that drive gear slides on was rusty or gummed up with caked-on grease. There's spring-loaded roller bearings in the clutch that wedge into notches to lock up one way during cranking, and unlock once the engine has started to prevent the racing engine from spinning the starter too fast. When all those bearings fail to lock up, the starter will spin without spinning the drive gear, (or engine). Years ago it was fairly common to replace a drive gear assembly, (often referred to as a "Bendix"), but we rarely see that today, especially with a rebuilt starter.

On that plunger I discussed previously, the shaft that pushes the drive gear out is usually spring-loaded. Under the right conditions, it might be able to move far enough for the contact disc to turn on the current to the starter, but not quite push the drive gear far enough to engage the ring gear if it's sticking on the shaft. That would probably tend to act up more in cold weather, but that too would not be an issue with a rebuilt starter.

You may be able to get an idea of the cause by the sound. If it just sounds like a freely-spinning electric motor, I'd guess the drive gear wasn't moving out far enough. If you hear a loud chattering or grinding, that would point to the over-running clutch. A loud buzzing or scraping noise would result from either a worn spot on the ring gear, or the drive gear is moving out too sluggishly. Given the ongoing problems, worn teeth on the ring gear are a good possibility. Engines often coast to a stop in the same place resulting in the initial engagement of the drive gear at the same teeth on the ring gear. If you can get it to where the problem occurs repeatedly, try turning the engine by hand a little, then try again. If that helps, you can remove and reinstall flex plates in multiple orientations on a lot of engines, but given the amount of work required, it would make more sense to replace it.

I found the ring gear is part of the flywheel on your truck with a manual transmission. A replacement ring gear is available separately, but to my surprise, it's actually less expensive to buy the entire flywheel with the ring gear already on it. I've never replaced a ring gear myself, but I have read that it can get rather involved setting it straight and at the right depth. I'd rather leave that to the specialists who make them.
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Saturday, March 27th, 2021 AT 4:22 PM
Tiny
SFCTRIPLETT57
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The Toyota is a 1986 4x4 Pickup with a 1993 22R-E engine it has an1983 clutch installed and a 1983 flywheel. None of the 1983 staters the owner bought would just barely touch the flywheel I bought a 1993 stater. The 1993 starter will start it a c couple of times and then it is like it gets to a certain point and grinds, you keep trying to start it and it will crank. Question do you have to match the clutch with the flywheel and do you have to match the starter up with the flywheel.
Thank You, Sir

Larry A. Triplett
Iraq War Vet
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Monday, March 29th, 2021 AT 9:02 AM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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This is way out of my area of expertise. Did you post a new question so the other experts can see your dilemma? There's a real good chance one of them will know what combination of parts will work.
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Monday, March 29th, 2021 AT 7:08 PM
Tiny
SFCTRIPLETT57
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Not yet I will in the morning.
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Monday, March 29th, 2021 AT 8:02 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

I noticed we haven't heard from you in a couple of days. Has any progress been made?

Let me know.
Joe
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Thursday, April 1st, 2021 AT 8:12 PM
Tiny
SFCTRIPLETT57
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Sorry Sir, I have been busy helping my Son at his house.
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Friday, April 2nd, 2021 AT 1:36 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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No problem whatsoever. I just wanted to make sure you have what is needed. Feel free to let me know if you have questions or need anything.

Take care,

Joe
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Friday, April 2nd, 2021 AT 6:38 PM

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