No start condition, has spark

Tiny
FITZ73
  • MEMBER
  • 2000 DODGE CARAVAN
  • 3.0L
  • V6
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 180,000 MILES
Sequence of problem. Began misfire fifty miles from home. Check engine light been on for a week. Visual inspection. Open radiator. Fluid low, small bubbles. Fill directly into radiator before driving home. Temperature is higher than normal drove home, five miles out misfire stops. Next morning, starts normally. Starts misfire after warming up. Check radiator. I realize bubbles may be from system sucking air from empty reservoir. Fill reservoir. After engine cools, start engine. No bubbles now. Fluid running full. Next day, same start normal, misfire after warm up. Decide to change plugs, wires, cap and rotor. Discover fans are not working. Research and decide to fix after plug change. Change out front bank plugs, wires, cap and rotor. Rotor in wrong position to access screw. Crank engine slightly. Change rotor and replace cap. Decide to start and test drive. Engine runs smooth, but retarded, lack of power during test drive. Similar to old school leaking vacuum advance hose. Decide problem is in rear bank plugs or wires. Disconnect battery for alternator removal. For easy access to rear bank plugs and alternator bracket, removed windshield wiper linkage pan, serpentine belt and then alternator. Change out rear bank plugs and wires. Reinstall alternator, install new serpentine belt. Decide to test start before reinstalling wiper linkage pan. Connect battery and crank engine. Get no start. Test for spark with special spark tester All plugs and coil wires have 1/2" spark at test plug at end of wires. Decide no fuel to engine is problem. Remove rubber duct from throttle body, open throttle, inject starter fluid. Crank engine. Still no start. Reinspect all vacuum hose and wire harness'. Find wires to Throttle Position Sensor covered with elect tape. Remove tape, discover all three wires with open insulation. Cut out open sections, solder new sections and cover joints with shrink tubing and re-tape. Test TPS with multi-meter with harness connected to sensor, and manual throttle open/close proves sensor is okay. Decide to test Camshaft and Crankshaft Position Sensors. Both test voltage okay within spec. Since engine no start regardless of have spark and direct injection of fuel, inspection of fuel pump/filter seems moot. This has me baffled. So, any ideas? Have digital multi-meter/tools and years working with mechanic dad. Still baffled. By the way, I live in small Michigan town, no repair shop. Closest auto store to read codes is thirty five miles. No start makes it moot anyway. However, just ordered cheap scanner to read codes. Meanwhile, I am still baffled. I am all ears. Thanks in advance.
Tuesday, May 22nd, 2018 AT 5:18 AM

10 Replies

Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • MECHANIC
  • 52,797 POSTS
Good morning.

I would start by checking the actual fuel pressure. Also, if you have a test light, it would be good to test the wire from the injector to the PCM. It should flash while cranking to indicate the PCM is commanding the injectors to fire.

I would also do a compression test on the front cylinders. The lack of power you indicated leads me to believe you may have a timing belt issue. Low compression will confirm this.

Roy

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-cranks-but-wont-start

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-a-timing-belt-works

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-a-fuel-injector
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Tuesday, May 22nd, 2018 AT 6:35 AM
Tiny
FITZ73
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Hello again. Thanks for the quick reply. As for the fuel pressure, I looked for a Shrader valve on this engine, but from research, it appears there is none. Moreover, I do not have a pressure gauge. The other thing is; the fuel line fittings on these are really weird. The vehicle is old, and you almost have to break the plastic locks over the fitting to remove them. I was going to test the fuel pump by removing the line from the fuel filter, but same there. Moreover, it is a total pain to get to it. Have to lower the tank. I was trying to eliminate all other possibilities before doing this.
As for the wire from the PCM to the injectors, I *think* they terminate at a large connector behind the injector plenum, but I will have to research that before attempting this test. Meanwhile, my brother in law is a mechanic and suggested a bad coolant temperature sensor could cause the engine to run retarded and lack of power. Might be reason why fans are not working too. However, he said it would not cause a no start. What I really do not understand, is why it will not start when I have spark, and inject starter fluid directly into throttle body with throttle open. Okay, well, got some more tests to do. Fuel pressure regulator and fuel pump and the one you suggested. Other than that, just have to wait until my new scanner arrives. It might tell me something. Okay, thanks again. Have a great day.
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Tuesday, May 22nd, 2018 AT 7:23 AM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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No to the coolant sensor. It will not cause low power.

You need to check the compression. It sounds more and more like you have a timing belt issue.

Roy
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Tuesday, May 22nd, 2018 AT 7:31 AM
Tiny
FITZ73
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
Hello Roy. Thanks for the reply.
Okay, if it is a timing belt issue, sure seems odd one minute it fires up, but as soon as I installed the rear bank plugs I get a no start. Moreover, I pulled the distributor cap and had my wife crank the engine. The rotor turned. If it was a timing belt, the rotor would not turn, no? Other question is, what does the compression have to do with the timing belt? Just asking.
One more question. How does one verify it is a timing belt?
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Tuesday, May 22nd, 2018 AT 9:41 AM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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Okay, the belt is made of rubber and has teeth. If it is loose, slips or teeth are missing it will cause this issue.

There are covers on the front that need to be removed to physically examine the belt.

If your valve timing is off it will affect the compression. If the timing is retarded, it will lower the compression. That is the easiest way of checking a timing belt.

Roy
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Tuesday, May 22nd, 2018 AT 11:04 AM
Tiny
FITZ73
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
Hi again. Timing belt. My worst nightmare. :) Saw a video on changing out timing belt on this engine. Is not going to happen. But I will borrow a compression gauge from local auto store just to make sure. If it turns out to be timing belt. I am just going to junk it. Too many other things bad too. Especially leaking power steering pump. Which I could change once the crankshaft pulley was off. But that is not going to happen. I am seventy three years old and have too many other important things to get done before Michigan winter hits again. *Sighs* :) Probably will get scanner today and check out codes. Maybe that will tell me something too. Okay, thanks for the insight.
*thinking, who in their right mind would design an engine with a rubber belt, buried so far into the engine. Oh. Wait. A corporate engineer.* :)
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Wednesday, May 23rd, 2018 AT 3:54 AM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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LOL, you and I think alike.

Yes, the belt is involved. Have done dozens of them over the years.

Roy
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Wednesday, May 23rd, 2018 AT 10:36 AM
Tiny
FITZ73
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Dozens? I do not envy you. But, you are a mechanic like my dad. FWIW. Dad was nineteen year old flight mechanic crew member on PBY in WW2 that discovered Japanese fleet heading towards Midway. His pictuce is in Smithsonian. Family legend holds he saved family during Grapes of Wrath Oklahoma to California journey in 1933 at eleven years old, in Mohave desert by changing out main bearing in Model T Ford pickup with six old wrenches and his leather belt as a bearing replacement. Lasted five hundred miles to Corning California. I am the living proof he did it. Fixed so many cars for family in his life I cannot count the times. Thanks Roy, you made my day, like dad.
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Wednesday, May 23rd, 2018 AT 4:42 PM
Tiny
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Glad I could bring a smile to your face.

Have a good night.

Roy
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Wednesday, May 23rd, 2018 AT 5:01 PM
Tiny
FITZ73
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You too Roy.
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Wednesday, May 23rd, 2018 AT 5:12 PM

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