Hard to start at times and stalls at idle

Tiny
GLENN GILBERT
  • MEMBER
  • 1997 DODGE AVENGER
  • 2.5L
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 150,000 MILES
Hello,

My car has been cranking more when trying to start, but does start, and when at idle or just barely giving it gas it will stall but will start right back up. I do notice now that the idle is a little rough. I used to be an automotive AC mechanic years back but cannot seem to be able to figure out what is going on here.

I have tried the following:
1. Cleaned the throttle body.
2. Changed the fuel filter.
3. Put Sea Foam gas additive in the tank.
4. Replaced the fuel pump relay.

Also, I would like to mention that when this was going on the temperature gauge starting rising when at idle as well so I replaced the thermostat which seemed to solve that problem.

The fuel pump was replaced around three years ago and when it was first replaced I could hear it turn on when I first turned the key on but now I do not hear it turn on so I am not sure if it is going bad or if there is something else going on. A mechanic friend of mine in Florida suggested changing the distributor as he says it could be the coil but I am hesitant about going that route as I am not sure if that could be the cause or not.

I am open to suggestions of what might be the problem.

Thanks
Sunday, March 11th, 2018 AT 5:18 AM

5 Replies

Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,902 POSTS
There are two things to consider. The first is your observation the engine does not run smoothly. That is either due to misfires or idle speed that is too low. None of the parts you listed will cause this. Also, one of the important sensors is in the distributor. When it fails, the engine will not start at all. The fact the engine will eventually start indicates all the parts in the fuel supply and ignition systems are working.

For rough running, the spark plugs and wires are the best suspect. Next is to look at idle speed. If the battery was recently disconnected or run drained, the engine computer will have lost its memory. Most of the data will be relearned automatically, except for "minimum throttle". Until that is relearned, idle speed will be so low, the engine may not start unless you hold the accelerator pedal down 1/4", you will not get the nice idle flare-up to 1500 rpm at start-up, and it will tend to stall at stop signs.

To meet the conditions for minimum throttle to be relearned, drive at highway speed with the engine warmed up, then coast for at least seven seconds without touching the pedals.
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Sunday, March 11th, 2018 AT 4:52 PM
Tiny
GLENN GILBERT
  • MEMBER
  • 44 POSTS
The battery was recently disconnected when I put the fuel pump relay on so my alarm would not go off. I have no engine light on in the dash and have not had for quite some time. Would I still be able to have the code pulled if not light is on in the dash? Also, how would I go about turning the idle speed up? It seems light when I am backing up from my garage or out of a parking spot is when the engine idle does not seem to be high enough to keep it running and the engine will cut out. When it does stall it will crank back up but it will take a little longer than usual before it does crank up approximately four to five seconds.

What doe I need to do at this time?

Thanks,

Glenn
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Monday, March 12th, 2018 AT 3:33 AM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,902 POSTS
Idle speed is not adjustable. It is computer-controlled on fuel injected engines. Reread the last two paragraphs in my first reply.
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Monday, March 12th, 2018 AT 2:43 PM
Tiny
GLENN GILBERT
  • MEMBER
  • 44 POSTS
I just replaced the TPS switch and I am waiting to see how the car will run but while I was pulling the car into my garage this afternoon saw some antifreeze on the garage floor. I heard the fans kick on but the temperature gauge was only half way and in the normal range. I recently changed the thermostat as the car was running hotter than what it normally does, just over half way on the temperature gauge so I decided to replace the thermostat. When I pulled the bottom radiator hose off there was no antifreeze that came out of the hose. I do not understand what is going on their unless the radiator is partially clogged or the water pump is starting to go bad, both are original.

I am open to suggestions on what might be the problem. Thanks
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Saturday, March 17th, 2018 AT 3:56 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,902 POSTS
The throttle position sensor has no affect on idle speed. Its readings simply tell the engine computer throttle position, direction of change, rate of change, when your foot is off the accelerator pedal, and wide-open-throttle. When your foot is off the accelerator pedal is when the computer must be in control of idle speed, but it does not know that until minimum throttle has been learned. When that is learned, it puts the throttle position sensor's signal voltage in memory. From then on, anytime it sees that same voltage, it will look at other sensor data to know how to control idle speed.

The coolant had to go somewhere. Given the additional symptom of running hotter than normal, a good suspect is a leaking cylinder head gasket. Coolant can go into a cylinder, then out the tail pipe as white smoke, and combustion gases can go into the cooling system. If those gases pool under the thermostat, that can prevent it from opening. Thermostats must be hit with hot liquid to open. Hot air will not do it.

There are two tests to consider. The first is a chemical test at the radiator. While the engine is running, air is drawn through a glass cylinder with two chambers partially-filled with a special dark blue liquid. If combustion gases are present, the liquid will turn bright yellow. You may be able to borrow this tester from an auto parts store that rents or borrows tools, but they will make you buy your own bottle of fluid. That is because it becomes ineffective if it freezes or if it becomes contaminated with coolant. They do not want to risk borrowing it to the next person with contaminated fluid. This test just takes a few minutes, so it might be less expensive to have your mechanic do it.

The second test is simply to add a small bottle of dark purple dye to the coolant to check for where it is going. Search a day or two later with a black light. The dye will show up as a bright yellow stain that you can follow back to the source. If a head gasket is leaking, you will find the dye inside the tail pipe.
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Saturday, March 17th, 2018 AT 10:07 PM

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