Engine timing

Tiny
MARK FRIZZELL
  • MEMBER
  • 2005 CHEVROLET CLASSIC
  • 2.2L
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 146,000 MILES
We had to install new chain because the old one broke. I understand the procedure. Except getting the crank in the correct position to begin. Is it possible to be 180 off on the crank and still top dead center on cyc.#1, is it DTC on valve intake or exhaust?

Thanks,
mark
Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 7:11 AM

19 Replies

Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 13,573 POSTS
Yes it is possible to be off on the crank position by 360 degrees from correct TDC. If you try to install the chains with the cams installed.
180 would put it at bottom dead center.

Intake stroke - piston is heading down the bore from TDC to BDC with intake valve open.
Compression stroke - piston is coming up to TDC to firing point. (Where you want it for timing chain install)Both valves closed.

Crankshaft has rotated 360 degrees when it reaches TDC.

Power stroke - piston is heading down the bore to BDC,
Exhaust stroke - piston is coming up to TDC with exhaust valve open

Crank has now completed 720 degrees (two rotations) back to TDC.

On both intake and exhaust you will have some overlap with both valves open to help scavenge the cylinder and reduce emissions.

The bigger issue is, how many valves got bent when that chain broke and did you repair them or replace the head?

As for the timing chain install. If you are starting from scratch the easy way is to loosen or remove the cams so they are not moving any valves. Bring the number one piston up to TDC. Now install the cams and the chains using that as the TDC point. Watch that you put the balance shafts in the correct position as well.

If you wish to install the chains with the head on, you can turn the crank 180 degrees to bring all the pistons even, Set the cams into position and lock them so the will not move. Now rotate the crank back up to TDC gently. (TDC has the key-way in line with it)
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 10:30 PM
Tiny
MARK FRIZZELL
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That was a big help, thanks, another mechanic told I couldn't get wrong if I just installed chain with crank key at 12ock position, I knew u could be wrong with that info because it takes two revolutions
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Saturday, September 9th, 2017 AT 8:59 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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As long as the timing marks all line up it should be fine. In theory, on a computer controlled engine you should be fine following those instructions, of just putting the crank key up. But it helps to be sure where everything is considering that the old chain broke.
Did you repair any bent valves or just replace the head?
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Saturday, September 9th, 2017 AT 4:18 PM
Tiny
MARK FRIZZELL
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Replacing head, it had almost no compression on all but one cylinder
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Sunday, September 10th, 2017 AT 5:24 AM
Tiny
MARK FRIZZELL
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  • 142 POSTS
I did notice that #1 and #4 we're almost in the same position at TDC
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Sunday, September 10th, 2017 AT 5:28 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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1&4 should be exactly the same when at TDC as they are on a basic 180 degree crankshaft. When 1&4 are at TDC, 2&3 should be at BDC.
If you put #1 at TDC and measure to the top of the piston from the block deck, #4 should be withing 1-2 thousands of the same measurement. If they are farther than that apart you likely have other damage.
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Sunday, September 10th, 2017 AT 5:59 PM
Tiny
MARK FRIZZELL
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Is that important to install new head bolts being that engine is aluminum? I wouldn't think stretch like cast blocks do.
Thanks
Mark
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Tuesday, September 12th, 2017 AT 7:00 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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Very important as head bolts are torque to yield items these days. You use them once and replace them.
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Tuesday, September 12th, 2017 AT 9:30 AM
Tiny
MARK FRIZZELL
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  • 142 POSTS
Thanks you've helped lot Steve getting ready to assembly this today, may need help later, I'll see how it goes
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Tuesday, September 12th, 2017 AT 10:06 AM
Tiny
MARK FRIZZELL
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I'm sure my questions are redundant, but I just want to be sure, now I have old head removed and there bent valves. On to the timing at this point, #1and #4 is TDC, from this point it shouldn't matter as long as I line up all chains and links correct? Since I'm starting from scratch the crank 360 thing doesn't matter correct as long as 1and 4 are up right?
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Tuesday, September 12th, 2017 AT 12:01 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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Correct. It only matters if the head is on and you don't know where the cams were when the chain failed. Put #1 at TDC and bolt her together.
No such thing as redundant when it come to vehicles. Research on a problem can save you a lot of time and frustration.
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Tuesday, September 12th, 2017 AT 1:09 PM
Tiny
MARK FRIZZELL
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Your the man Steve, I'll let you know in a day or so how it turned out
Thanks again big help
Mark
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Tuesday, September 12th, 2017 AT 1:11 PM
Tiny
MARK FRIZZELL
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  • 142 POSTS
Hey Steve, when installing head bolt the spec says 22lbs then 155 deg turn
Sure doesn't seem like much
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Wednesday, September 13th, 2017 AT 10:21 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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22lb and 155 degrees will end up with a final torque around 80ish ft. Lb.
Just pay attention to the methods. Clean threads, light oil on threads and on the head surface where the bolts torque. One thing I do depart somewhat on. Do the initial torque to 22 then let it set for an hour or so before you go back with the angle meter.
I also tend to double check the tools. I will mark the location of one of the points on the bolt, then measure the angle degrees and put a mark on the head. That also gives you a confirmation that you did each bolt. (And it can save you from needing an angle meter)
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Wednesday, September 13th, 2017 AT 7:48 PM
Tiny
MARK FRIZZELL
  • MEMBER
  • 142 POSTS
I followed ur suggestions, it is together and running great thanks for all your guidance Steve u were very helpful
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Thursday, September 14th, 2017 AT 7:24 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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Great to hear. Thank you for using 2carpros. Com Come back any time with your automotive questions.
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Thursday, September 14th, 2017 AT 10:29 AM
Tiny
MARK FRIZZELL
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Can I ask you about an old dodge
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Thursday, September 21st, 2017 AT 10:42 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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Sure, just ask as a new question so it's easier to find and more people will see it.
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Thursday, September 21st, 2017 AT 10:59 AM
Tiny
MARK FRIZZELL
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  • 142 POSTS
I just did it's there
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Thursday, September 21st, 2017 AT 11:02 AM

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