Random stall issue

Tiny
DAKOTAGUY23
  • MEMBER
  • 1996 DODGE DAKOTA
  • 3.9L
  • V6
  • 2WD
  • MANUAL
  • 206,000 MILES
For the last two months my vehicle has been randomly stalling. When it does it usually will crank over but not start. There is no code or check engine light. One shop did get a general ignition code somehow. I was looking for a damaged wiring harness. I lifted the splice and the engine rpm's shot up. I also noticed the connector on the right is not connected to anything. Does anyone have a clue where it goes to? This is my first time electrical troubleshooting.
Wednesday, October 24th, 2018 AT 3:15 PM

9 Replies

Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,875 POSTS
That's the diagnostic connector, but that was only used up through '95 models. Vehicles with the newer "OBD2" emissions system all have the diagnostic plug under or near the steering column. Typically there will be a black plastic cover hooked to the wiring harness to protect that plug when it's not being used.

Will the engine start if you hold the accelerator pedal down 1/4"? If it does, the most common cause of this low idle speed is the battery was recently disconnected or run dead. The Engine Computer needs to relearn "minimum throttle", but to do that, a specific set of conditions must be present. To meet those conditions, drive at highway speed with the engine warmed up, then coast for at least seven seconds without touching the pedals.
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Wednesday, October 24th, 2018 AT 5:04 PM
Tiny
DAKOTAGUY23
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Initially it starts just fine. I can’t make it 2 blocks before the engine dies. It will not restart by pressing the accelerator down until it sits overnight. I’m thinking my issue is in the splice in the photo.
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Wednesday, October 24th, 2018 AT 5:26 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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I can't tell from the photo, but if you can change idle speed by wiggling it, that is a good suspect. It's not uncommon for moisture to sneak into a splice and corrode it.

Look at the emissions sticker under the hood to see the year listed for the emissions system. I think it's going to be 1995. The defects that could be detected by the Engine Computer were pretty few in number compared to the 2,000 things on '96 and newer models.

Chrysler made reading diagnostic fault codes much easier than any other manufacturer. Cycle the ignition switch from "off" to "run" three times within five seconds without cranking the engine. Leave it in "run", then, if you have a '95 system, count the flashes of the Check Engine light. Here's a link to the page that describes that, and it has a list of the code definitions:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/retrieve-trouble-codes-for-chrysler-dodge-plymouth-odb1-1995-and-earlier-car-mini-van-and-light-trucks

If you have a '96 system, the codes will show up in the odometer display. Those will be three-digit codes. Here's the page of definitions for those:

https://www.2carpros.com/trouble_codes/obd2/p0200

The common causes of intermittent stalling with a failure to restart are the crankshaft position sensor and the camshaft position sensor. The cam sensor is inside the distributor. The crank sensor is behind the rear of the right cylinder head, in the transmission bell housing. Both of those often fail by becoming heat-sensitive, then they work again after cooling down for about an hour.

There's two important points to be aware of with these codes. First, they never say to replace a part or that one is bad. They only indicate the circuit or system that needs further diagnosis, or the unacceptable operating condition. When a part is referenced in a fault code, it is actually the cause of that code about half of the time. First we need to rule out wiring and connector terminal problems, and mechanical problems associated with that part.

The second point is not all fault codes turn on the Check Engine light. Only a fault code related to something that could possibly adversely affect emissions will turn that light on. If a cam or crank sensor fails, the engine will not run, so it can't pollute excessively, therefore, those codes don't turn the light on.

There's one more thing to be aware of with these sensors. When they fail, they typically will not set a fault code just from cranking the engine. They need more time to be detected, as in when a stalled engine is coasting to a stop. When you have a crank / no-start, and no related fault codes to know where to start looking, you'll need a scanner to view live data. I have a Chrysler DRB3 for all of my vehicles. It was made for '96 and newer models, but with an extra plug-in card, it works on all the models back to 1983, including the early '90s stuff I drive. There are a lot of good aftermarket scanners out there too, but I don't know how they display these two sensors. The DRB3 lists each sensor with a "No" or "Present" during cranking to show if their signals are showing up at the Engine Computer.

If your truck uses the 1995 emissions system, you can also look on eBay for an older Chrysler DRB2, but those require a cartridge that covers the model you're working on. I think the newest one had a yellow sticker, (to match the color of the service manuals for that year), called a "Super cartridge). Super cartridges combine all the separate older cartridges into one for the 1994 model year and all the previous years. That one works on '95 models. I don't think there was a separate '95 cartridge. If there was, it will have a light green sticker. You can find these scanners for less than $100.00 on eBay because they're so old, and all the newer scanners work on the older vehicles too, so independent repair shops don't need these any more. DRB3s are coming down in price too. A lot of independent shops bought these because with one of those extra cards, it will do emissions-related stuff on all brands of cars sold in the U.S. starting with '96 models. That scanner started going obsolete in 2004 on the Dakotas and Durangos, and the last it worked on were some 2008 Jeeps. For that reason, a lot of shops that had these are happy to sell them..
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Wednesday, October 24th, 2018 AT 9:04 PM
Tiny
DAKOTAGUY23
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Thanks for the info. I’ll check the sticker tonight when I get home. I plugged in a OBD2 scanner. Everything seems to look good except the MAP pressure. It’s 3.3 inHg at idle and 6.6 inHg at 2,500 rpm. That seems really low.
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Thursday, October 25th, 2018 AT 8:27 AM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
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We normally don't look at the exact numbers, but those are pretty low. If there is a problem, the Engine Computer will detect it and set the appropriate fault code. Low readings like that equate to hard acceleration, and the computer should be requesting a richer mixture. I'd expect to see black smoke from the tail pipe.

'97 models had the MAP sensor plugged into the side of the throttle body, so there was no vacuum hose to leak. '95 models still had it mounted remotely, and connected to the intake manifold with a vacuum hose. I can't remember how it is on a '96 model. If yours has that vacuum hose. Check that for cracks and leaks.
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Thursday, October 25th, 2018 AT 3:06 PM
Tiny
DAKOTAGUY23
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I checked and I can’t find the emissions sticker. I assume it has been rubbed off. The build date was 8-95 though. I tried the flash test. 1255 is what it read indicating no codes. The MAP is attached directly to the throttle body. Do I need to take the throttle body off to remove it?
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Friday, October 26th, 2018 AT 2:19 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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If you got codes 12 and 55, you have a '95 emissions system.

There's two screws to remove for the MAP sensor, then it pulls straight out to unplug the vacuum port.
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Friday, October 26th, 2018 AT 2:46 PM
Tiny
DAKOTAGUY23
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I pulled the map sensor. The connector is in good condition. I tried to clean it the best I could. I also looked for a vacuum leak, but there was no sign of one. The spark advance dropped significantly when it tried to stall while idling. That is the graph I was on when it happened.
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Monday, October 29th, 2018 AT 2:40 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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The better things to watch are the crankshaft position sensor and the camshaft position sensor. If either of those signals disappear, the Engine Computer is going to turn off the automatic shutdown, (ASD) relay. That removes the 12 volts feeding the injectors, fuel pump, and ignition coil, so spark will drop out. It is hard to tell on a graph if spark stopped because the ignition coil failed, or because something else failed, then the ASD relay got turned off. You would have to be watching all three at the same time. Given that those two sensors have a very high failure rate, and ignition coils have a real low failure rate, it is the two sensor signals you should be watching.

Your scanner should have some means of showing whether or not those signals are showing up during cranking an engine that will not start and run.
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Monday, October 29th, 2018 AT 4:28 PM

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