Crank but no start, codes p0204, p0300, p0304 and p0401

Hi,

First, three of the 4 codes you listed are most likely the result of the P0204. See attached pic for injector description. That would have caused the P0300 and 304. The P0401 is normally an exhaust gas re-circulation code (EGR), but that code isn't shown for this vehicle, so I'm not sure on that one yet.

Now, here is what I need you to do. First check fuses 39 and 40 in the under hood fuse box. I attached a pic and highlighted the fuses. These fuses are responsible for the ignition coils.

Also, take a quick look at all fuses in the same box. There are ignition fuses that may have failed.

Here are a few links you may find helpful:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-a-car-fuse-works

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-a-car-fuse

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-test-light-circuit-tester

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-voltmeter

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-wiring

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Let me know what you disconnected and dried. If you are not sure of the component's name, if possible, take a pic and upload it for me to see.

I will watch for your reply.

Joe

Hi Joe. Attached are the plugs (in red) that was disconnected and blew. In (blue) left connected but blew out. Other is general area.

So I checked fuse 30 and 40 as well as all fuses in that block and all are good.

Hi,

In addition to the fuses, is there power available to them? And was it 30 or 39 you checked? Also, if there is power to them and it still won't start, we need to check to see if there is spark and fuel to the engine. Ignition spark is my first suspect as being a problem and not fuel.

Here is a link that shows how it's done:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-an-ignition-system

I need you to check that for me. Let me know the results.

Joe

My mistake, I checked 39 and 40 but also checked all fuses in that compartment. I did not check for voltage as I have no way of checking. We checked each coil for spark by removing coil and spark plug and plugged into spark plug just to see if plug created spark. All spark plugs did show spark with #4 the strongest. While plugs were removed, we did crank to clean out cylinders and did notice that #1 had more fuel than the rest, or in fact #1 spray from cylinder on #1 only that noticed. Checked all connectors again and seem okay. Unplugged battery again to reset. Still no luck. Engine light still came on with traction control and another light below it stays lit as well as traction control message needs diagnosis as well as message for reduced power diagnosis. I think my best bet it to tow it to shop to see if they can figure it out cause I'm getting frustrated and that when the worst will happen.

If you have spark, then it must not be getting fuel. Try one more thing for me. See if it starts for a couple seconds if you use starting fluid.

Also, when you say cylinder 4 had the strongest spark, how was it different?

As far as testing for power at the fuses, all you need is a basic test light. They are very inexpensive and easy to use.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-test-light-circuit-tester

Let me know.

Joe

On the spark to #4, son said spark was bigger/brighter then other coils.
I also checked fuses with bulb and wire, turned ignition to on but no power to #39 or 40, but I'm not sure because it only sends pulses when it's cranking. To send the spark. I do not know.

See if it starts with starting fluid. If it does for a couple seconds and then stalls, it is a fuel related issue. And interestingly, the fuses you checked should have power when the key is in the run position. The idea that you got spark indicates it does.

Let me know what happens with the starting fluid.

Take care,
Joe

Update: so tried starting fluid and it turned over, knocking at first but started. I kept a steady stream of fluid to see if it would stay running and it did but does as soon as I stopped. Sounds like it's the fuel pump for some odd reason just for cleaning. Very weird timing.

Also checked fuel pump fuse in trunk and still good. Will see what mechanic says tomorrow.
Thanks for the guidance and will keep posted.

Okay. Chances are it isn't the pump, but rather something electrical. Check the following fuse. See attached pics. Pic 1 indicates the fuse purpose, pic 2 shows what it powers, pic 3 shows location in the fuse box under the hood.

Let me know what you find.
Joe

Checked and that fuse is not blown.

Check it for power. Something has most likely failed due to shorting from the water. It is hard to believe the pump failed. Not saying it isn't possible, but really odd. There is a fuse box in the trunk. I need you to check fuse 37 as well. See picture 1.

Sorry to be driving you crazy with fuses, but I really feel something got wet and shorted.

Joe

Too dark here now, but I did check that fuse earlier and was also good.

I really appreciate your guidance on this. It has to be a short from the water. I am surprised I couldn't find a blown fuse. Maybe a computer needs to be hooked up to clear the codes to go back to normal. I do not know.

Chances are it is a power issue, but it could be something different. Can you hear the fuel pump prime when you first turn the key on? I'm starting to question if the pump is on but there is no fuel injection pulse. If you can, follow this link and see if there is an injector pulse.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-a-fuel-injector

If you find there is a pulse, then lets check the pump. Even if you hear it, check for pressure. Here is a link showing how that is done. You will need a fuel pressure gauge, but most parts stores will lend it to you.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

Here are the manufacturer's specs for pressure:

2013 Cadillac ATS Sedan RWD L4-2.5L
Pressure, Vacuum and Temperature
Vehicle Powertrain Management Fuel Delivery and Air Induction Fuel Pump Fuel Pressure Specifications Pressure, Vacuum and Temperature
PRESSURE, VACUUM AND TEMPERATURE
The Fuel Pump Enable may need to be commanded ON a few times in order to obtain the highest possible fuel pressure.

DO NOT perform the Fuel System Diagnosis if the engine coolant temperature is above 60°C (150°F). High fuel pressure readings may result due to hot soak fuel boiling. With the engine OFF, the fuel pressure may increase beyond the pressure relief regulator valve's setting point of 690 kPa (100 psi) ± 5 percent.

Ignition ON, engine OFF, command the Fuel Pump Enable ON several times with a scan tool.

Fuel Pressure Sensor parameter .................... 345-650 kPa (50-94 psi)
with the fuel pump running.

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Here are the directions for connecting a gauge to your vehicle. The attached pics correlate with these directions.

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2013 Cadillac ATS Sedan RWD L4-2.5L
Fuel Pressure Gauge Installation and Removal
Vehicle Powertrain Management Fuel Delivery and Air Induction Fuel Pump Fuel Pressure Testing and Inspection Component Tests and General Diagnostics Fuel Pressure Gauge Installation and Removal
FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE INSTALLATION AND REMOVAL
Fuel Pressure Gauge Installation and Removal

Special Tools

* CH-47831 - Fuel Line Disconnect Tool

* J 34730-1A - Fuel Pressure Gauge

* J 42982 - Fuel Pressure Gauge Adapter

Installation Procedure

Warning

Gasoline or gasoline vapors are highly flammable. A fire could occur if an ignition source is present. Never drain or store gasoline or diesel fuel in an open container, due to the possibility of fire or explosion. Have a dry chemical (Class B) fire extinguisher nearby.

Warning

Wrap a shop towel around the fuel pressure connection in order to reduce the risk of fire and personal injury. The towel will absorb any fuel leakage that occurs during the connection of the fuel pressure gauge. Place the towel in an approved container when the connection of the fuel pressure gauge is complete.

Caution:
Clean all of the following areas before performing any disconnections in order to avoid possible contamination in the system:

* The fuel pipe connections

* The hose connections

* The areas surrounding the connections

1. Relieve the fuel pressure. Refer to Fuel Pressure Relief See: Fuel Pressure Release > Procedures > Fuel Pressure Relief.

2. Disconnect the quick connect coupling of the fuel feed hose from the fuel feed pipe of the fuel rail. Use a shop towel in order to catch any remaining fuel that may leak.

3. Remove the intake manifold cover. Refer to Intake Manifold Cover Replacement See: Intake Manifold > Removal and Replacement > Intake Manifold Cover Replacement.

4. Install the J 42982 - adapter between the fuel feed pipe of the fuel rail and of the fuel feed hose.


pic 1


Caution: Refer to Fastener Caution See: Vehicle > Technician Safety Information > Fastener Caution.

5. Install the J 34730-1A - gauge to the J 42982 - adapter, and tighten securely.

6. Turn ON the ignition in order to pressurize the fuel system.

7. Turn OFF the ignition.

8. Check for any fuel leaks.

Removal Procedure


pic 2

1. Relieve the fuel pressure. Refer to the Fuel Pressure Relief See: Fuel Pressure Release > Procedures > Fuel Pressure Relief.

2. Remove the J 34730-1A - gauge from the J 42982 - adapter.


3. Using the CH-47831 - tool, disconnect the quick connect coupling of the J 42982 - adapter from the fuel feed pipe of the fuel rail. Use a shop towel in order to catch any remaining fuel that may leak.

4. Disconnect the quick connect coupling of the fuel feed hose (3) from the J 42982 - adapter, and remove the adapter. Use a shop towel in order to catch any remaining fuel that may leak.

5. Connect the quick-connect fitting of the fuel feed hose (3) to the fuel feed pipe of the fuel rail.

6. Turn ON the ignition in order to pressurize the fuel system.

7. Turn OFF the ignition.

8. Check for any fuel leaks.

9. Install the intake manifold cover. Refer to Intake Manifold Cover Replacement See: Intake Manifold > Removal and Replacement > Intake Manifold Cover Replacement.

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Let me know what you find or if you have other questions.

Take care,
Joe

Update: Stupid Cadillac dealer tried to rip me off by saying my motor is bad and that I needed a new $12,000.00 motor without getting into specifics as to what caused motor issue. I told them the mechanic did not do thorough diagnostic and to only check anything related to fuel delivery system. Stupid dealers are not even real mechanics anymore. If it's too much work, they don't want to hassle with it, just change motor. Well see what they're evaluation came to be, if they bother.

Wow, that is crazy. I can't believe they told you the engine was bad. Ugh! Let me know what they find or if you need help with anything.

Take care,
Joe

They said they did fuel system check(f ute l pump and says it's working good and that I needed to get a new motor. I told them I'm just going to take back home. I will try to check into it once I g4t home and a chance tomorrow.

Let me know. Here is a link that shows how to check for an injector pulse. See if it is something you feel comfortable doing. Did you tell them it starts with starting fluid?

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-a-fuel-injector

Joe

I told them it started and it stayed running with starting fluid but in their mind, you just need a new motor. It's leaking oil, and said it has low compression (I think they said 160 cylinder #1 /165 #2 /200's on 3 and 4) which I think is baloney. I had to force the mechanic over the phone to check anything fuel related, but only hunch it they just didn't bother. They needed that commission sale.

I'm sorry to hear that. Please let me know what you find out from them or if you need help, feel free to ask.

Joe

So car is at shop and finally got back to me after a week. States compression was good and was able to start under own power but shaky until rpm's go up. States possible code for I hector's #3 and 4 on atomization being bad (possible). They want to change all injectors but can't guarantee will fix issue. Want to charge about $1,700.00, so I'm just going to bring back home and try to fix myself. check and or clean injectors and or even valves due to this darn GDI now that I have time on my hands. Once I get it here,I might need your expertise guidance on this.

So it no longer needs an engine? That's interesting. lol Listen, let me know if I can help in any way. I hope you are all doing well. It's crazy times.

Joe

Decided to pull the intake manifold to see if injectors were dirty or I can test.

Injectors look pretty clogged.

Hi,

Here is a link that explains how to test an injector in several different ways. Let me know if it helps.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-a-fuel-injector

Well well, look what I discovered? Oil soaked plug at rear of block right where I cleaned. Can this possibly be crank sensor?

Hi,

The crankshaft position sensor is behind the starter. Can you tell me where the sensor you found is specifically located? It could be an oil pressure switch. I have seen them leak through to the connector and fail. I have to do further research, but I believe if it fails, the engine won't run as a protection device.

See the pic below for the crank sensor.

It's a connector with a red safety tab and is mounted on a bracket on driver side rear and looks like a brake booster hose running next to it. The plug is routed going somewhere below the exhaust manifold.

Seems to be the oil pressure control valve plug. That plug had a lot of oil in the plug. I might consider changing just for the heck of it but have to remove the catalytic converter to get to that sensor. It's just above the oil filter.

If that is what you found, I would replace it. They are known to leak internally and the oil goes into the connector.

Joe

So got it going and runs sweet as before. Cleaned intake, valves, injectors and connectors that had oil. No one had that oil pressure switch so just had to roll the dice and cleaned.

Thanks for your help and guidance. You are my hero.

Took back to shop to clear and check codes and p0192, p0203 and p0204 cannot be removed. Shop says to run 2 or 3 bottles of fuel injection cleaner to clean out. But they say overall, it runs great. Hmm.

Excellent!! I'm really happy to hear this. You are very welcome. Anytime you have questions in the future, please feel free to come back.

Take care,
Joe
PS: I hope you are doing well in these crazy times.

Hope you doing great yourself. I had just got laid off due to the covid slowdown and this $12.00 repair vs. $12,000.00 saved my rear.

I'm sorry to hear about your job. It is happening everywhere. I am struggling to not lose my mind sitting in the house. LOL Regardless, you take care and please feel free to come back anytime you need help. It's really a pleasure to help people like you.

Take care,
Joe