Squealing noise possible bad alternator, A/C compressor, or serpentine belt slipping?

Tiny
SIENNAWISE
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  • 1998 TOYOTA SIENNA
  • 3.0L
  • V6
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 199,000 MILES
Can't seem to catch a break on my vehicle listed above, recently I had to replace the timing belt and water pump, I replaced the serpentine belt with a Bando and not too afterwards started to notice a squeal that would go away after the engine warmed up, but yesterday with a heat index of 113 with the AC on this ear piercing squeal started and after driving around for about 20 minutes I started to lose power, I turned off the engine and couldn't start it again, luckily I had my jump box, no way would I be able to run the AC, suspecting the alternator since it looks like it's the original over 20 years old. My van more like an oven than van I went to AutoZone thank goodness their AC was nice and cold, to get it checked and at first the battery which is less than 2 months old was so low it wouldn't hold a load, so they put it on a charger, meanwhile thinking the belt might be slipping I tightened up the tensioner 30 mins after charging the battery, it started right up, and the squeal seemed to go away, the tester and multimeter showed the voltage at around 12.6 and dropping, prognosis bad alternator, cost for part replacement only around $250, thanks to inflation, went next door to Pueblo Auto Repair, got a quote for replacement, $550 2 hours labor.

I wanted to make sure it was the alternator and without taking it out and putting it on a bench there really is no way to know for sure, except the mechanic reminded me about the old trick of removing the ground wire while the engine is running, if the engine shuts off the alternator is bad I know there is a risk that goes with that but the mechanic said to make sure I made sure I kept it from connecting to any ground, I went back to AutoZone, removed the ground and the engine kept going it was surging though probably because the battery was low. I went back into the nice cool store, told them and they said it could be the voltage regulator in the alternator is bad. I decided to get a second opinion, but first I had to stop to get something cold to drink I went to the market, came back and it started right up so I went to O'Reilly's, less than a mile away, the analyzer showed the same thing, at that point I risked it and drove back to home base about 4 miles and went online to research the issue, I learned about 2 more tricks one being rapping the alternator with a hammer and see if the voltage goes up if it does it's a bad component, it didn't go up, two putting a screwdriver near the pulley, if its drawn to it there is a magnetic field and the alternator is working properly, now here comes the twist in the story I connected my multi tester with engine running and the voltage was 13+ and climbing I put the A/C, lights stereo on and the voltage held around 12.6 but when pressing the gas with the A/C running that horrible squeal came back, could it be the belt is slipping? I've tried all I can to tighten the tensioner it or could it be the compressor is going? Or could it be the alternator is going? Sorry for the long story but there was a lot to explain. Thanks for any help.
Friday, June 16th, 2023 AT 11:20 AM

25 Replies

Tiny
AL514
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Hello again, banging on the Alternator, the magnetic field and disconnecting the Ground are all horrible suggestions, and those guys should have never had you do any of those. The Alternator diodes can be damaged by banging on it for one. Did you take the belt off and check each pulley by hand? If there's a bearing going bad, tightening the belt will only make it worse. At this point see if there's any AC voltage ripple coming from the Alternator. Set your meter on AC volts and go from the s Post of the Alternator to battery negative. You should have a very low voltage reading, less than.5volts of AC. If the charging system dropped off when the compressor came on, then it can be the compressor starting to seize up. The belt is going to slip and squeal if something is stopping it from rotating. 12.6 is too low, the ECM controls the Alternator and it should have raised the voltage with a load like that. So take the belt off and check the pulleys. I don't remember if you have a clutch on your compressor or if it was a variable swash plate compressor.

Okay it's possible the A/C clutch is going bad as well. But with the belt off check all the other pulleys first.
It also sounds like the battery had not been fully charged up yet. You didn't drive very far.
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Friday, June 16th, 2023 AT 1:25 PM
Tiny
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Hello again. Well, in all fairness, the banging the alternator and magnetic field came from online, today tightened up the tensioner and the squealing is less frequent, I noticed a spark on the positive battery connector and I found there was a butterfly nut that was loose I tightened it up and it started charging the battery normally over 1300 I found that when I run the AC at full at idle the charging goes down but if I run at low or medium it maintains charge. As for the compressor it hasn't seized up yet and I have never noticed it wobble or go on and off unless the refrigerant was low, I think it has a clutch. Do you think I should still take the belt off and check the belt and pulley? Do I still need to test the alternator? Thanks
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Friday, June 16th, 2023 AT 9:10 PM
Tiny
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A couple tests you can do is see what the voltage reading is at the battery with all the lights on and A/C on high, as well as the rear defrost, that will put a large load on the Alternator and post what the highest voltage reading you get. It should stay between 13.5 to 14.2 roughly with that much load, another test is to see how low the battery gets while cranking the engine. You can disable the fuel pump or injectors for that test so you won't get any cylinder wash with fuel. The battery shouldn't drop below 8.5-9volts. If the battery drops too low here, it's either not charged up, or possibly has some shorted cells inside, that can happen if the battery hold down clamp is too tight and squishes the battery case.

And since you found a nut that was loose you can also check from the Alternator S(positive post) to the Battery Positive post (voltage drop test) while you have the electrical system loaded and see if there is any voltage loss on that positive cable from the Alternator to the battery, ie bad connections or corroded wires. That should be less than .5volts roughly. You can do the voltage drop test on the negative side of the circuit as well, from the Alternator housing to Battery negative. With it fully loaded you will have some voltage drop, but still you don't want much. Below .5v

It wouldn't hurt to check the AC ripple as well, just set your meter on AC voltage on a low scale, below 1volt if you don't have an auto ranging meter. When it comes to AC voltage, you want less than 50mv (0.05v) There are a set of diodes inside the Alternator that rectify AC voltage to DC that the ECM can use. Once the diodes start to go bad AC ripple will increase, and banging on the Alternator is one thing that will cause them to be damaged.

Below is a scope waveform from my truck when I was testing, there you can see the swing into the negative voltage (-75.47mv) to (91.03mv) with a total of 166.5mv which is way too high. My Alternator was in bad shape, it has actually melted to positive post going to the battery. But in the waveform, you can see the diode, each hump, it's a terrible looking waveform, but this much AC voltage can damage the ECM.

Your A/C compressor does have a clutch on it, it's a magnetic clutch. So, when it's energized the magnetic field pulls the clutch in. Thats how it cycles on and off. It should cycle about every 8 seconds or so, that's a general range, it can be different depending on wear, the amount of refrigerant, pressure sensors, temperature sensors, etc.
So there's about a million things to check, just kidding, actually most of this testing is just with your meter in a couple different places and should only take a few minutes.
I know you've just done a ton of work on this van, so if the alternator voltage stays at a decent level with the AC on medium, then run it like that. Try not to stress the charging system too much, unless you get voltage readings that are completely out of range. It shouldn't be down near 12.6 with a load on it. That means the battery or alternator are not keeping up. Here's a few guides to help if you need them. Hope things go ok for you.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-a-car-alternator

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-battery-load-test

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/symptoms-of-a-bad-car-battery
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Saturday, June 17th, 2023 AT 7:51 AM
Tiny
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Okay, I'll try them one at a time, otherwise it's too overwhelming, I'll let you know as soon as I get the results, thanks.
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Saturday, June 17th, 2023 AT 4:40 PM
Tiny
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Okay, write down your voltage readings with each test.
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Saturday, June 17th, 2023 AT 9:27 PM
Tiny
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Well, at first startup it started to recharge around 13, but as soon as I turned on the lights it started to drop below 13 and with the A/C on low it went to around 11 and then dropped to 10 and wouldn't recharge till I turned the A/C and lights off and it was very slow, so I guess I didn't have to. Test much seeing how the voltage dropped down so fast, I'm now convinced it's the alternator, good thing I proofread this I typed radiator instead of alternator that would have made no sense at all lol Anyway I ordered a replacement should receive it Wed. I guess all I can do now is wait. Thanks
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Saturday, June 17th, 2023 AT 10:43 PM
Tiny
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Okay, did you check the voltage drop when cranking the engine over at first start up when the battery had some charge? Also, the AC voltage check? A bad battery or issue with the main positive cable from the Alternator to the battery can cause strange charging issues as well.

Let the van run for a bit to charge up the battery and then do these tests.
First put the meter on the battery and see what the voltage drops to while cranking.
Next test,
With the van running, check from the Alternator post to the positive battery post set on DC volts and see what the voltage drop is on that cable.
Then set your meter on AC volts, and check from the Alternator post to the battery negative and see how much AC ripple the Alternator is putting out with the van running.
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Sunday, June 18th, 2023 AT 1:24 PM
Tiny
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I didn't because I'm embarrassed to say I don't know which is the alternator post is that the one that screws on and has a cover on it? Do I just pull the cover off? Also, I have another fairly new battery I can test it with, right now it's way too hot 106 here to do much, I have to wait for the right opportunity. If it turns out the alternator is still good I'll just keep the replacement as a back up in case the old one goes, I bought a replacement starter for our old motor home last year and the starter finally started to go so I had the replacement ready to go and the mechanic was over here to diagnose it said it was gone so lucky I had the one I bought. I'll let you know thanks.
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Monday, June 19th, 2023 AT 11:12 AM
Tiny
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Yes, you're looking for the main power wire on the Alternator that runs to the Battery positive. The first diagram is an aftermarket diagram, and it looks to be somewhat incorrect on their labelling of the Alternator 3 wire connector. So, the second (bottom) and third (top) diagrams are the OEM and go together. The fourth is the main charging wire to the Battery. The fifth is the 3-wire connector.
If the voltage is low on the current battery in the van before you start it, then you can put the other in if you want. The static voltage should be around 12.6 with the engine off.
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Monday, June 19th, 2023 AT 1:42 PM
Tiny
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Okay, just seeing this now, yesterday I swapped batteries a little higher CCA on this one, it had around 12.6 on it so it started right up, didn't recharge much had to give it some gas, got up to 13-ish with lights on with A/C on and its squealing still it wouldn't get past 11.50 no matter how much gas I gave it. I will try to check the alternator as soon it's cool enough, terrible heatwave here in Texas. Thanks
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Tuesday, June 20th, 2023 AT 11:47 AM
Tiny
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If that belt is squealing that much, it is slipping on one of the pulleys, so when you get a chance take it off and check each pulley by hand, 11.5 is way too low. That means there isn't enough current flowing either to charge the battery, never mind run the vehicle systems too.
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Tuesday, June 20th, 2023 AT 12:33 PM
Tiny
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Well, if I'm going to replace the alternator, I need to take the belt off so I will do that at the same time, the 11.5 is only with the A/C on full, could it be the compressor pulley? Thanks
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Tuesday, June 20th, 2023 AT 1:34 PM
Tiny
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Yeah, the belt can be slipping either on the pulley that has an issue, or the bad pulley is causing the belt to slip on the harmonic balancer and the belt is not spinning as fast as it should. You said you tightened it up, so that made the situation worse. Did the voltage get up to 13.7 to 14.2v with the AC off? You'll know what the issue is once the belts off. If you feel the need to swap out the Alternator and the problem is still the same, then you have a spare Alternator, and you will have to investigate the AC compressor some more. With the belt off you can put power to the compressor clutch to check it, you don't need the engine to be running. Here's the check list for the compressor clutch, the clutch itself is replaceable. But some special tools are needed, and it needs shims to make sure the pressure plate distance to the rotator is correct. It's not the easiest job at all. But you would hear a bearing noise from the clutch when the compressor was off. And it's the opposite of that. But let me know what you find when you take the belt off.
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Tuesday, June 20th, 2023 AT 2:08 PM
Tiny
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So far, I got a voltage drop of 1.45 volts with engine Off 0.140 with engine on can't check amps I need to get a amp clamp. One thing for sure, with no load it charges between 13-14 as soon as I turn on the headlights it stops charging and starts dropping fast. By the way the 140-amp fusible link shows continuity and no issues.
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Thursday, June 22nd, 2023 AT 10:00 AM
Tiny
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Okay, so it's not isolated to just the A/C compressor. 140mv is not bad. Were you able to do the A/C voltage test? And how low does it drop to with the headlamps on? This isn't with the new Alternator on, correct? This is the original one.
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Thursday, June 22nd, 2023 AT 2:13 PM
Tiny
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Haven't done the A/C test yet voltage drops to around 12 ish with lights on, same with the blower on almost full with the AC on and the cooling fans on the condenser, it drops below 12 to around 11 when I turn the load off it jumps back up to 12.5 but if I rev it up it goes up but it never goes back to between 13-14 this is with the better battery, yes it's the original alternator, I wonder if it could. Be the ECM? No error codes no battery light staying on. I have the replacement alternator but I just want to be sure the cause is the alternator before replacing it and finding the problem still persists. Next step I guess is to take the belt off and check the pulleys. Thanks
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Thursday, June 22nd, 2023 AT 4:05 PM
Tiny
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Yeah, check the pulleys when you change the Alternator, if the last battery was no good it could have caused the Alternator to over work, if there were shorted cells in the battery, which can cause charging system issues. With 6 cells in the battery, if 2 were shorted together, then you really only have 4 cells. At 2volts per cell, you can see how a battery can cause problems. When I find a bad Alternator, and they have been like that for a while, I usually recommend replacing the battery too.
Now too much AC voltage ripple can damage the ECM because it's not designed to run on AC voltage. Thats the reason for testing for that as well.
But your issue sounds like just a bad Alternator that can't keep up, the Headlamps, the Blower motor, the A/C compressor, those are all large current loads.
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Thursday, June 22nd, 2023 AT 5:14 PM
Tiny
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Okay, will do. I will let you know the results.
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Thursday, June 22nd, 2023 AT 5:20 PM
Tiny
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Hello, I haven't gotten around to changing the alternator yet, I took the belt off looks like it did when I put it on, as for the pulleys, the alternator spins freely, the compressor spins freely the clutch does not it moves by hand not frozen, so I guess that's normal and the balancer pulley as expected doesn't move by hand, as I know it takes a lot of force to move that one. So I'm thinking I will give the old alternator one last shot, put the belt back on, try to find that sweet spot tighten it and see if it works if not, I will replace it, will let you know the results.
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Saturday, June 24th, 2023 AT 4:51 PM
Tiny
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Only tighten the belt until you can twist it only 90 degree turn at its longest point, and not tighter.
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Saturday, June 24th, 2023 AT 5:55 PM

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