Adding more fog lights/off-road lights

THE IDEA HERE IS NOT TO CATCH YOUR RIG ON FIRE! (WIRE SIZES TO SMALL)

THE USE OF AN AFTERMARKET RELAY IS IDEAL!

IF YOU HAVE COVERS LIKE THE "SMILEYS" ON KCs, LEAVING THEM ON THE LIGHTS

THEN TURNING THEM ON WILL BE A DISASTER, AS IT WILL MELT THE COVERS, AND BUBBLE UP THE REFLECTORS WITHIN THE LIGHTS

YOU CAN ASK MY 27 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER WHO FIRED 'EM UP WHEN SHE WAS ABOUT 4 YEARS OLD!

THERE ARE OTHER VARIATIONS THAT CAN BE DONE (AS IN MY HOMEMADE PICS BELOW)

THE TRICK IS ARE WE GONNA "SWITCH-LEG" THE GROUND (85) OR ARE WE GONNA "SWITCH-LEG" THE HOT WIRE (86) THAT OPERATE THE ELECTROMAGNET

LEMME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK, MAYBE YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THEM!

THE MEDIC

Ok, now im not exactly schematic savvy, but i think I understand what you drew, correct me if I'm wrong. The difference between the 2 you drew is just the switchs', right? If so, I'd really like to make all 6 fog lights come on at the same time by the factory switch. I dont want to add a second switch (if i can keep from it). Plus, I dont want to make holes into the dash for another switch. I know i could do it under the dash and out of site, but i want it easily accessible as well.

Thank you
Joey

YOU WILL MOST LIKELY GO WITH SOMETHING LIKE MY 2nd DIAGRAM

(I USE THE 1st DIAGRAM TO OPERATE A RELAY TO MY TRAIN HORN'S COMPRESSOR AND ANOTHER RELAY TO RUN MY HOMEMADE "EXTRA HEATER'S" BLOWER MOTOR BOTH USING 2 SEPARATE PUSH-PULL SWITCHES GOING TO GROUND)

ON THE 2nd DIAGRAM UP ABOVE

THE PART ON THE RIGHT THAT I LABELED "OEM FOG LIGHTING" (ALL SMALLER RED LINES AND A SWITCH) IS SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT THE FOG LIGHTING CIRCUIT YOU ALREADY HAVE

THE HEAVY RED LINE (FROM THE AFTERMARKET RELAY) TIES INTO A WIRE THAT IS ALREADY OPERATING "A" FOG LIGHT (MOST LIKELY EZily FOUND NEAR THE FOG LIGHT)

THUS WHEN THE FOG LIGHTS TURN ON

THE RELAY ALSO TURNS ON

POWER IS ROUTED TO THE "NEW LIGHTS" DIRECTLY FROM THE BATTERY

VIA HEAVIER WIRING

PROTECTED WITH AN INLINE FUSE (HOMEMADE OR BOUGHT FUSE HOLDER)

THRU THE RELAY'S 2 LOAD TERMINALS (FOR LACK OF BETTER WORDING)

AND ON TO THE NEW LIGHTS

VIA HEAVIER WIRING

THE FUSE BETWEEN THE BATTERY AND THE RELAY IS MOST IMPORTANT,

I WOULD LOCATE IT RIGHT AT THE BATTERY POSITIVE POST AS TO PROTECT THE BIGGEST MAJORITY OF THE WIRE (LIKE ONLY 2 INCHES OF WIRE FROM THE BATTERY TO THE FUSE WOULD BE UNPROTECTED)

READ THE INSTRUCTIONS TO YOU LIGHTS WELL!

IF NUTHIN' ELSE SCAN 'EM AND POST 'EM HERE, SO WE CAN SEE WHAT THEY MEAN

THEIR INSTRUCTIONS SHOULD BE ADHERED TO, IF THEY DIFFER FROM MY SUGGESTIONS

BELOW IS A PIC OF A HOMEMADE FUSE HOLDER, 2 FEMALE INSULATED STAKE ONS AND A FUSE. "THEY" MAKE FANCIER RUBBERISED HOLDERS WITH FLIP TOPS

I USE THIS SET UP TO TEST THINGS (IN THE CASE OF THIS PIC, BYPASSING THE IGN SWITCH, BY RUNNING POWER DIRECTLY TO THE COIL FROM THE BATTERY ON A JEEP CJ) I AM ONLY USING A 15 AMP FUSE IN THIS CASE

IF YOU STILL HAVE QUESTIONS NOW OR LATER

JUST KEEP ASKING HERE, I'M HERE MOST EVERY EVENING

I'LL DO MY BEST TO ANSWER OR STEER YOU TO MAYBE A DIFFERENT SET-UP

I DON'T WANNA HEAR THAT YOU FRIED YOUR RIG DUE TO A WIRING ISSUE!

THE MEDIC

Hi again,
First i would like to say thank you for any and all input you have offered. And also i like the homemade inline fuse. Simple, yet effective. :) and no i dont want to catch my truck on fire either. Thats why im asking these question before i do anything. I may not be an expert, but common sence goes a long way! Lol

Now i do have more questions.....
1) on your diagram for the oem fog light switch, i count 5 wires. Do 2 of the wires go to the low beam headlights? (When i turn on the highbeam headlights, the fog lights automatically shut off)
2) is one a ground?
3) again, i am adding 4 lights. Should i install 4 relays? One for each light?

And for the aftermarket instructions, I'll post them hopefully on the next visit. Also, if it helps any, my factory fog lights are on seperate fuses. A left side & right side. If i remember correctly, it's tied in with the parking lights.

Joey

THE "OEM" PART OF MY DIAGRAM WAS JUST "SLUNG OUT THERE" IT'S SWITCH WAS MEANT TO BE THE SWITCH FOR YOUR FOG LIGHTS, NUMBER OF WIRES WAS FICTITIOUS!

AFTER TALKING TO A FRIEND, HE SUGGESTS LEAVING THE VEHICLE'S LIGHTING OUT OF THE EQUATION

THIS PREVENTS POSSIBLY INTERCOURSING UP YOUR SYSTEM NOW

YOU CAN STILL RUN "FOG" WITHOUT KCs BEING ON

I'M DRAWING YOU A DIAGRAM NOW---FOR 6 LIGHTS (LEAVE OFF ONE RELAY AND 2 LIGHTS IF YOU ONLY WANT 4)

2- 100 WATT LIGHTS CAN RUN OFF OF ONE RELAY

BEEN OUT RUNNIN' 'ROUND WITH THE MRS. MOST OF THE DAY- MAYBE I WILL FINISH THE DIAGRAM TOMORROW- IT MAY BE VOID, IF YOUR INSTRUCTIONS SUPERCEDE IT

THE MEDIC

Will i use a 20amp relay? The lights came with an inline fuse with a 15amp attached. Also, do i need a 4 pin relay?

WIRE OVERKILL IS A GOOD THING!

EVERYTHING FROM THE BATTERY IN A DIRECT LINE TO THE LIGHTS IS 10 GAUGE (HEAVY LOAD)

THE "SWITCHING" (ELECTROMAGNETS) IS ALL 16 GAUGE (LITTLE LOAD)

RADIO SHACK IS SO MUCH CHEAPER THAN AN AUTO STORE AND YOU HAVE MORE CHOICES

LIKE THIS RELAY (40 AMP) $6.44 SEE MY LINKS!

http://www.radioshack.com/12vdc-40a-spst-automotive-relay/2750001.html#q=automotive%2Brelay&start=2

WITH ALL OF THE COMPUTER JUNK IN MODERN CARS, EVEN THE LIGHTS (AUTOMATIC SHUT OFF/ AUTO DIMMERS/ ETC) IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA TO TIE INTO SOMETHING FROM LIKE 1985 ON UP

I LIKE PUSH PULL SWITCHES AND TOGGLES W/ A SAFETY COVER (LIKE FOR ARMING STUFF IN A JET) IT'S HARD TO "ACCIDENTALLY" TURN ON THESE TYPE

http://www.radioshack.com/search?q=TOGGLE+SWITCHES+

LEMME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK

SEE PICS BELOW! 2nd BEING HOW I ELIMINATED THE KEY TO MY '77 JEEP, I RIGGED AN OLD (NOW MODIFIED) IGN SWITCH THAT PLUGS INTO MY ORIGINAL HARNESS, IT IS TOTALLY REVERSIBLE BACK TO ORIGINAL AS I CUT NO WIRES--SEE MY SWITCHES "ACC"/ "IGN"/ MOMENTARY TOGGLE FOR "START" I HAVE A HIDDEN MASTER SWITCH TO DISABLE THE WORKS

THE MEDIC

Ok. I think im on my way to getting my brain wrapped around this. Altho i do have 2 more questions.
1) In your drawing it shows 25amp fuse, but my lights came with a 15amp fuse. Was that just a random number you picked, or suggestin to bump it up?
2) Kind of not related, just more curious than anything. But a 5 pin relay has 87 & 87a, are these basically the same, just an extra spade attached (compared to the 4 pin)?

Joey

I'VE LOOKED THRU A BUNCH OF "KC" AND OTHER DIAGRAMS (GOOGLE SEARCH/ IMAGES) WITH 100 WATT LIGHTS 25/ 30 SEEMED TO BE THE NORM

GO AHEAD AND USE YOUR 15 AMP FOR 2 LAMPS, AND ANOTHER ONE FOR THE OTHER 2

I FEEL SURE THAT IF IT CAME WITH THE SET, IT SHOULD WORK.

I'D SAY THAT ONLY SHORTING THE WIRE TO THE LAMP, TO GROUND, WILL BE THE ONLY THING THAT WILL BLOW THE FUSE

AS FAR AS THE 5 PIN, I'VE NEVER USED ONE FOR ANY OF MY HOMEMADE APPLICATIONS

I HAVE INSTALLED THEM IN CARS AS DIRECT REPLACEMENTS

NEVER HAVE TRACKED DOWN THE WHYs AND HOWs THAT I COULD USE ONE

AGAIN, GOOGLE SEARCH/ IMAGES FOR "KC DAYLIGHTERS" WILL BRING UP MANY DIAGRAMS KCs AND NOT, YOU WILL SEE THE 5 PINS IN SOME OF THOSE DIAGRAMS.

SOMETIMES THE 5th PIN IS USED, SOMETIMES IT'S NOT

I TRY TO STICK WITH WHAT I KNOW FOR CERTAIN, AND WILL PASS IT ON TO OTHERS

I WILL "EXPERIMENT" ON MY OWN STUFF WITH UNFAMILIAR CRAP- IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG, IT'S ON ME, HOPEFULLY IN A "CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT"

YOU 'BOUT READY TO INSTALL?

UNDERSTAND THEM PIGGYBACKS?

UNDERSTAND HOW TO LOSE MY MIDDLE RELAY/ AND THE LIGHTS IT RAN, THEN HOOK THE DIAGRAM BACK TOGETHER?

WHAT ABOUT THE RADIO SHACK ROUTE FOR THE RELAYS AND OTHER PARTS?

THE MEDIC

Ok, sorry it took so long to reply. Life can get busy!

First, I had to find a Radio Shack close to me, and that wasnt easy. Lol. But i did find some of those piggybacks. And I have decided to go ahead and mount a seperate switch for the off-road lights. By the way thank you, for your input on that. It definitely was the deciding factor for me. No sense in risking my vehicle over something as meaningless as "convenience" or "cosmetics". Now, I have to decide on a toggle or push/pull type switch.

I'm getting close to the point of installation. As I said, theres the switch decision. I need to purchase the 10g wire. And another fuse. Im going to install those 2 inline fuses (as we discussed previously) close to the lights. But I want to install another fuse close to the battery (incase there is a short between the battery and other fuses, it won't melt the wiring, etc).

As far as losing the middle relay, thats looks simple enough.

Ive taken in alot of info these past few days and it's starting to come together now. Which reminds me :)

I asked you about the relay that has 87a on it. Researched it and finally figured it out. This is how it works. Think of cop car headlights when they flash in emergency mode. The left one is on, but the right one is off. Flip the switch, then they switch, the left one is off, and the right one is on. Flip the switch back again and it repeats.

Im thinking if a man wanted to, he could put a flasher relay in front of it, and turn the switch on and work on its own.

The one thing about it im curious about is, if you turn the switch off, would one headlight be stuck in the "on" position, and the other in the "off" position.

Its got me curious, so im gonna wire one up, and see what the outcome is.

Now, there's another relay lilke the 4 pin (87 only), & the 5 pin (87 & 87a). This is called a "dual". Its a 5 pin relay, but operates like the 4 pin. Basically eliminating the need for the piggyback as we discussed earlier.

The only thing I don't truley understand, is the actual purpose of the relay like the 4 pin and "dual". Because you technically could hook up your lights to the toggle switch. If you ran the ground wire to the toggle switch, lights come on and off, right? So what am I not gasping about that?

Joey

WITH THE VERY 1ST DIAGRAM I SENT

"HOT" JUMPERED FROM ONE PIN TO THE OTHER

THE GROUND ON THE RELAY HAD A SWITCH IN IT, AND THE WIRE OUT OF THE SWITCH WAS SHORT AND GROUNDED TO THE CHASSIS

THE COOL THING HERE IS MY "SWITCH" CAN RUN A LONG WAYS ON JUST ONE WIRE. THERE IS NO NEED TO RETURN BACK OUT TO THE RELAY (OR LIGHTS/ LOAD) WITH ANOTHER WIRE

(AS IF YOU RAN 12V TO THE SWITCH (WHICH BREAKS THE 12V, AND NOW HAD TO SEND IT BACK OUT TO THE LIGHT)

IF MY GROUNDED WIRE W/ SWITCH (MY 1ST DIAGRAM AGAIN) EVER RUBBED A SHORT IN IT - IT WOULD SIMPLY TURN ON MY APPLIANCE, NO SPARKING, NO FIRE, NO BLOWN FUSE, IT WOULD SIMPLY TURN ON THE RELAY

IN FORD AND JEEPS CJ (AND OTHERS) IT WOULD BE STUPID TO RUN A MONSTER BATTERY CABLE TO THE IGN SWITCH AND BACK TO THE STARTER

THUS THE NEED FOR THE (HEAVY) STARTER RELAY, CONTROLLED BY THE IGN SWITCH VIA SMALL WIRE

KEEP ME POSTED

THE MEDIC

So basically is serves no real purpose, other than eliminating the need of extra wire. That about right?

I think I get it now. It allows you to run thinner wire that can be routed to the cab of the vehicle. Am I right?

NOT ONLY A THINNER WIRE

THIS MAKES IT CHEAPER!

BUT MOST-US OF ALL

THE LONGER THE WIRE, THE MORE AMP DRAW, HEAT/ MELT/ FIRE?

NOT TO MENTION, THE LONGER (BIG) WIRE SORTA "STARVES" THE APPARATUS IT SERVES (WHICH COULD FRY THE INTERNALS OF LIKE, MR.STARTER)

KINDA LIKE HOOKING 5- 100 FOOT EXTENSION CORDS TOGETHER, THEN HOOKING MR. HEAVY DUTY TABLE SAW TO IT

THIS IS WHY YOUR BATTERY CABLES AND THEIR ADJOINING BUDDIES ARE LARGER GAUGES AND SHORT

THERE'S A LOT MORE TO ELECTRICITY FUNDAMENTALS THAN THAT, CAN BE EXPLAINED IN MORE TECHNICAL TERMS, BUT I'M SORTA GIVING YOU SOME LAYMAN'S TERMS THAT MIGHT MAKE SENSE, AS I AM NO TECH SCHOOL TEACHER

HERE'S A GOOD EXAMPLE

YOUR NEG CABLE FROM THE BATTERY USUALLY RUNS STRAIGHT TO THE ENGINE

IT MAY ALSO SOMEHOW BRANCH OFF TO THE FRAME AND BODY

OTHER WIRES MIGHT HOOK TO THE ENGINE GROUND TOO, LIKE SOME ACCESSORIES (LET'S PRETEND THEY ARE SMALL WIRES) AND SOMEHOW CONNECT BACK TO THE BATTERY'S NEGATIVE TERMINAL (NOT NECESSARILY TO THE BATTERY) THEY MAY CONNECT SOMEWHERE ALONG THE NEG CABLE'S SYSTEM (AND REMEMBER TO THE ENGINE TOO)

ALL SEEMS GOOD, NEGATIVE AND NEGATIVES ALL LIVE ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE BATTERY-.-.-.-.-RIGHT?

LET'S CRANK THAT PUPPY

CRANKY/ CRANKY- POS 12VOLTS HITS THE STARTER-RUNS THRU IT-RETURNS TO THE NEG SIDE OF THE BATTERY-CIRCUIT COMPLETE-ALL IS WELL!

NOW LET'S DO WHAT MY FRIEND SCOTT DID!

HE HAD A GROUND TO THE ENGINE AND ANOTHER LITTLE WIRE FROM THE NEG BATTERY CLAMP TO "SOMEWHERE"? IT WAS IN A WIRE LOOM WITH OTHER WIRES

NEG CABLE TO ENGINE HAD CRUMBLING INSULATION

HE HOOKED THE NEW CABLE TO THE BATTERY- BUT NOT TO THE ENGINE

HE GOT SIDETRACKED (MAYBE A CELL PHONE/ MAYBE A FEMALE)

A FEW MINUTES LATER

HE JUMPED IN AND DID THE CRANKY/ CRANKY THING!

THE STARTER DID NOT MOVE

BUT THIS HAPPENED!

POSITIVE 12 V HIT THE STARTER VIA BIG CABLES

STARTER NEEDED A GROUND

THE NORMAL BIG HEAVY GROUND WAS NOT HOOKED TO THE ENGINE!

MR. STARTER SAYS, "THATS OK, I CAN TRAVEL BACK TO THE BATTERY VIA THIS/ THESE LITTLE WIRES

I WATCHED SMOKE EMIT FROM THE WIRE LOOM/ THEN I SEEN A GLOWING RED WIRE MELT THRU THE FULL LENGTH OF THE LOOM ALL AT THE SAME TIME

COOL THING WAS WHEN THE OTHER WIRES' INSULATION MELTED AND A FEW OF THEM STARTED GLOWING TOO!

AFTER BOTH OF US FRANTICALLY TRIED TO UN-HOOK THE BATTERY

TOO LATE- THE POWER WAS NOW OFF-THIS AND OTHER LOOMS HAD ALREADY CAUGHT ON FIRE

WE GOT THE FIRE OUT FINALLY, THE WIRE HARNESS AND OTHER STUFF WAS PRETTY DAMAGED

MORAL OF THE STORY- CHEVY BLAZERS ARE TROUBLE!

BUY A JEEP!

THE MEDIC




HE FAILED TO HOOK IT TO THE ENGINE BLOCK