My Van has dropped it gas mileage?

Tiny
PAUL CLENDENNING
  • MEMBER
  • 2011 DODGE CARAVAN
  • 11,000 MILES
The transmission would not go out of low gear and the dealer ended up switching the ECU and now when I fill up instead of having 800KM DTE I get 600KM DTE. The service person told me it is because of my driving habits and has nothing to do with the computer changes they did?
Monday, October 31st, 2011 AT 4:15 AM

20 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,755 POSTS
The computer is calculating the DTE based on the poorer fuel mileage you were getting. If you are driving the same, it should eventually recalculate to what you were getting prior to the problem.
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Monday, October 31st, 2011 AT 6:16 PM
Tiny
GHLIMDIMAS1028
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
  • 2008 DODGE CARAVAN
11.5 mpg city driving & 14.5 mpg hwy driving. Used to be 16 mpg city driving & 25 mpg hwy. Dealership have checked the car but could not find anything wrong.
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Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:11 PM (Merged)
Tiny
LYLY
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
Ther's no way to fix this problem, believe me people here will tell you that you don't know how to measure mile/gallon, and your tires pressure are low, and your speed odometer is wrong, your overhead display is wrong, you have to live with it or find an amigo to sell it to then problem sold, next time don't ever buy anythings from Chrysler, my 2003 3.8l engine, 9.5 to 10 mile/gallon-city, 15 to 16 mile/gallon-highway.(5 months ago was 14-15 mile/gallon-city, 18-19 mile/galon highway)
Good luck
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+1
Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:11 PM (Merged)
Tiny
BLACKSIDIOUS
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
  • 2002 DODGE CARAVAN
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 74,000 MILES
I am just curious of any ideas why my van is using so much gas. It didn't do this initially I used to be so happy with how it would do on gas mileage. We get the oil changed on a regular basis and use good gas. It just doesn't have the get up and go it used to have either.
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Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:12 PM (Merged)
Tiny
SERVICE WRITER
  • MECHANIC
  • 9,123 POSTS
There may be a combination of things or one problem in particular. A weak o2 sensor can cause a loss of fuel mileage as can low tire pressure.

A carbon build up on the intake valves and throttle plate may be part of the problem.

The caravan air filters are one of the more neglected maintenance items. How old is it and how old are the plugs?
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Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:12 PM (Merged)
Tiny
BLACKSIDIOUS
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
I am not sure on either of those questions. I know that the lasttime I had the oil changed they said I needed new plugs and wires but they wanted an outrageous amount to do it.
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Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:12 PM (Merged)
Tiny
SERVICE WRITER
  • MECHANIC
  • 9,123 POSTS
Is it something you are capable of doing?
We can try to guide you through it.
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Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:12 PM (Merged)
Tiny
GENE KEUP
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
  • 2001 DODGE CARAVAN
  • 3.3L
  • V6
  • 2WD
  • 275,000 MILES
I have extreme fuel usage and sluggish throttle. Hesitation or from stumbles when pulling a hill.
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Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:12 PM (Merged)
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,643 POSTS
Hello,

This sounds like a bad MAP sensor I would remove it to see if it holds vacuum here is the location along with a guide to help look at other things as well.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/engine-has-low-power-output

Check out the diagrams (Below). Please let us know what happens.
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Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:12 PM (Merged)
Tiny
RAZORFACE
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
  • 1999 DODGE CARAVAN
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 18,000 MILES
My vehicle currently is getting no better than 14 mpg/city. What can I do to regain my 20 mpg/city?
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Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:12 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JALOPYPAPA
  • MEMBER
  • 467 POSTS
In order of ease and/or likelihood to improve fuel economy, and assuming you're already taking it easy on the accelerator when possible:

1. Inflate tires while cold to pressure on door jamb sticker.
2. Replace spark plugs and check spark plug wires.
3. Check for any OBD trouble codes and perform any indicated repairs. Sometimes the ECM will store codes that don't activate the check engine light.
4. Check upstream oxygen sensor.
5. Check EGR valve.
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Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:12 PM (Merged)
Tiny
RAZORFACE
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
I'll check all of those. It probably, in hindsight, would have been more helpful if I gave a little extra info. For instance, I'm the original owner, a quadriplegic and have near zero car maintenance knowledge.

Would it be advisable to consult with a mechanic about item's 3 thru 5? Perhaps a "tune up" is in order. If so, what should be included in a tune up?

Thnx,

Mykyl
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Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:12 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JALOPYPAPA
  • MEMBER
  • 467 POSTS
In these days of electronic ignition and fuel injection, there's little to do in a tune-up besides changing the spark plugs and maybe the spark plug wires. I would just explain to the mechanic that fuel economy is low and ask him to see if any diagnostic check pinpoints a cause. He might suggest plugging in a code reader, which depending on your state might be a regular part of the vehicle inspection emissions test anyway.

The oxygen sensor recommended maintenance replacement interval is 30,000 or 40,000 miles. It can go several times that and not show any obvious trouble, but if yours has never been replaced, you might try that. By upstream, I mean the one in the exhaust system before the catalytic converter. There's another one past the converter to monitor its performance. A failing O2 sensor is said to sometimes be a culprit in low fuel economy, since it monitors and fine-tunes the fuel-air mixture.
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Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:12 PM (Merged)
Tiny
RAZORFACE
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
Ok, thnx for your help!
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Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:12 PM (Merged)
Tiny
MUTHAIGA
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
  • 1999 DODGE CARAVAN
  • 6 CYL
  • AWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 170,000 MILES
3.8L V-6 Grand Caravan ES AWD owned since new and always maintained and oil changed religiously. Runs like a top, clean exhaust, etc. And yet the fuel mileage has gradually declined by about 3+ mpg since new (was good for an easy 16/24, now about 13/19). I burn no oil between oil changes and power is good, so don't think engine wear is a factor. Transmission rebuilt 17K miles ago and still shifting nicely with no slippage. Filters are clean. Plugs replaced about 35K miles ago. Injector body decarbonized per recommendation of dealer to no affect.

Dealer says this is normal for higher mileage vehicles. Maybe for my 1965 Chevy with worn out cylinders, but I'm skeptical in this case. What are the other lilkely culprits if the cylinders are assumed to have little wear and considering it runs perfectly? The exhaust is still all original and I sometimes wonder how the cat is doing, but so far not affecting the way the car runs.
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Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:12 PM (Merged)
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,873 POSTS
Hi muthaiga. Welcome to the forum. The best way to approach this is to find a mechanic willing to take the time to connect a scanner to read the long and short-term fuel trim values. I'm not sure about aftermarket scanners but I know the Chrysler DRB3 will display the numbers.

The Engine Computer starts out commanding fuel metering based on values programmed in at the factory in "lookup tables" that cover every combination of sensor readings. From that starting point, once the oxygen sensors are warmed up, they report on unburned oxygen in the exhaust stream. Basically, the computer uses that information to add or subtract fuel from the pre-programmed values to meet the desired conditions right now. That's the short-term fuel trim numbers. If they are positive, the computer is requesting extra fuel. Negative numbers means the computer wants slightly less fuel. These numbers are constantly changing and updating as you drive. After a while, when the computer sees it is always making the same adjustment to fuel metering, it will move those numbers into the long-term memory. Those numbers are what will be used in the future to run the engine instead of the factory pre-programmed numbers. The long-term numbers can only modify fuel metering by plus or minus around 10 percent from the factory numbers, and the short-term fuel trims can only modify the fuel delivery plus or minus 10 percent around the long-term numbers. The key to all of this is those oxygen sensors.

When viewing the fuel trim values, if they are very high positive, you have to determine if the extra fuel is needed for a proper mixture or if the computer is responding to inaccurate sensor data. A good engine performance mechanic will force the mixture to go lean by introducing a vacuum leak, and will force the system to go rich by injecting propane, or by removing and plugging the vacuum hose to the fuel pressure regulator to make pressure and the resultant flow through the injectors increase. Then he will watch the short-term fuel trim numbers to see if the computer compensates correctly. The scanner will also display "oxygen sensor cross counts". That is how many times per second the sensor switches between "lean", "rich", and "centered". While a centered mixture is ideal for best engine performance and lowest emissions, the switching between too lean and too rich is necessary for proper operation of the catalytic converter.

Some other things the mechanic will look for is a cylinder misfire. If spark to one cylinder is lost intermittently, there will be unburned fuel and oxygen in the exhaust, but O2 sensors only respond to the unburned oxygen. The computer will interpret that as running too lean and will command more fuel, in your case, to the three cylinders on that bank. No matter how much extra fuel might be requested, there will always be that unburned oxygen in the exhaust.

If the fuel trim numbers are high negative, the computer has seen the rich mixture, (actually the lack of lean cycles since it can only monitor oxygen in the exhaust), and is trying to subtract fuel. A restricted air filter will cause you to have to press the gas pedal just a little further than normal. The throttle position sensor will tell the computer to expect the engine to need more fuel which it delivers, then it subtracts the extra fuel. Another less common problem is high fuel pressure. Too much pressure results in too much fuel flowing through the injectors during each pulse. Unlike the very trouble-prone pressure regulators on GM trucks, regulator problems on Chrysler vehicles is practically unheard of. However, a loose or cracked vacuum hose going from the intake manifold to the regulator will cause pressure to go up. Manifold vacuum pulls the fuel from the injector. When vacuum goes down as in moderate acceleration, fuel pressure is increased to give more push to the fuel to maintain a steady flow. If pressure is too high and too much fuel sprays from the injectors, the computer reduces the injector on-time to reduce the amount of fuel, but remember, it can only reduce fuel by around 10 percent. That might not be enough modification to compensate for the high pressure.

One rare problem that can be hard to find is a tiny exhaust leak ahead of the catalytic converter. Between the pulses of exhaust flow, the momentum creates small pulses of vacuum. That very small vacuum can draw in outside air through the leak and by noticed by the O2 sensor. That will cause the computer to think the mixture is too lean and it will command more fuel. This is a very rare problem so don't go tearing the exhaust system apart until the more likely causes are investigated.

Another overlooked problem is dragging brakes, particularly the front disc brake calipers. Years ago there was a lot of trouble with sticking pistons in the calipers, but they don't cause so many problems now. Stop on a small incline, put the transmission in neutral, and see if the van rolls downhill on its own. If it does not, a caliper is sticking. One cause that is becoming more common is a constricted hydraulic hose due to rust buildup inside the mounting bracket in the center of that hose. Usually there are other symptoms such as a higher and harder than normal brake pedal and most people notice the over heating brake, but that's after the problem gets pretty bad.

At the mileage you listed, you can also suspect a worn / stretched timing chain. That will retard camshaft timing and reduce engine power slightly. You won't notice the drop in power but you will be pressing the gas pedal a little further than normal to make up the difference. The front engine cover will have to be removed to inspect the chain to see how loose it is.

One final thing to keep in mind is the different fuel formulations required in different parts of the country at different times of the year. Thank your hair-brained legislators for that. One person in California posted a question about a year ago relating to getting 16 mpg with their truck since they bought it new many years earlier. It wasn't until they traveled to a different state that they noticed the fuel mileage went up to more than 20 mpg. In southern Wisconsin, it is common knowledge that the reformulated fuel is to be avoided whenever possible. Besides making people sick, everyone knows it causes a drop in mileage.

Since you noticed a gradual drop in mileage over a period of time, my vote is for a stretched timing chain. Late valve timing will result in a slight increase in low end torque and the engine will idle very smoothly. Other than the drop in fuel mileage, no other problems should be apparent.

Caradiodoc
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Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:12 PM (Merged)
Tiny
BARTY73
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
  • 1991 DODGE CARAVAN
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 150,000 MILES
I bought a 1991 Dodge Caravan for a replacement vehicle for my Daughter while she was getting a engine replaced on her 2003 Buick.
The Dodge is useing gas something terrible. Almost a quarter tank for 50 miles. No leaks can be found & gas cap is locked to prevent stealing. Put in a new filter & still the same. Also put in new plugs. Motor runs smooth so isn't overloading etc. What else could be wrong? We noticed the bearing on the serpentine belt was locked up & am going to replace that now but don't know if that would effect mileage any. Thx Ken
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Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:13 PM (Merged)
Tiny
RACEFAN966
  • MECHANIC
  • 5,029 POSTS
Ok first which V-6 engine is it running as there are 3 choices. What is the actual mileage do you know? Get back to me and we will go from there.
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Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:13 PM (Merged)
Tiny
BARTY73
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
It has 186000 miles on it and is the 3.3 engine.
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Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:13 PM (Merged)
Tiny
RACEFAN966
  • MECHANIC
  • 5,029 POSTS
Ok great but I was more wanting to know what is the actual MPG that you are getting if you have figured that out. I will look to see what I can find about the the fuel usage other wise.
I would also like to know if you have replaced the Air filter or fuel filter? Has there been any other maintance that has been done that you know of. Thanks and get back to me and we will take it from there.
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Friday, February 19th, 2021 AT 6:13 PM (Merged)

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