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Stalled then no crank

Tiny
JMAN74
  • MEMBER
  • 2005 FORD TAURUS
  • 3.0L
  • V6
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 234,000 MILES
I got a check charging system message a few days ago then it went away. I figured the alternator would be going soon. I started it up today, fired right up, started out the drive and it stalled as I pressed the accelerator. Tried to restart but nothing. Silence. A single click from under the dash and silence. I had been having issues with the TRS in the past so I changed it. Same result. I can roll the starter by jumping the relay. When I test the solenoid for juice when turning the key I get nothing. I also never get juice to the second pin on starter relay when key is turned. Something is not allowing the signal to pass to the starter relay and additionally not allowing spark at coil pack. Any ideas on where to check? I have tried all I can on this forum. I am using a battery jump box 700A to assist. Bright lights no dim when key turned, radio intermittent when key is in on position.
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Friday, October 26th, 2018 AT 11:23 AM

57 Replies

Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • MECHANIC
  • 52,797 POSTS
Good evening.

I would start by checking the fuses with a test light. Check for power on both sides.

I attached a wire diagram for you to view.

The relay should have battery power to the relay and another power when you turn the key to start.

Check for those voltages.

Also, check the battery. You should have 12, 6 volts at the battery. If it is lower, charge it to 12.6 volts.

Roy
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Friday, October 26th, 2018 AT 4:11 PM
Tiny
JMAN74
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Thanks for the checks and wire map Roy. It started raining here and so I will update tomorrow after performing your suggestions. I also plan on cleaning all grounds and connections in the starting system. That may also reveal the snake. :)
Regards
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Friday, October 26th, 2018 AT 6:27 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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Sounds like a plan.

Roy
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Saturday, October 27th, 2018 AT 6:10 PM
Tiny
JMAN74
  • MEMBER
  • 32 POSTS
Hello again,
Okay - I have no voltmeter so all tests were done with a test light.
1) Battery charged to 12.6 volts (Checked this through the "Engineering Test Mode" on digital cluster display).
2) Disconnected and cleaned all contact points and checked for both current and ground.
3) Checked relay points for current: PIN30(constant), PIN86 (On when key is in start).
4) PIN 85 shows on diagram as NEG from PCM which I never get anything from.

Without a meter which I am trying to get a hold of I do not know what or where to check.
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Tuesday, October 30th, 2018 AT 12:50 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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Okay, how did you check for current and ground with a test light? A test light cannot test current.

Try this. Use a jumper wire and jump 30 to 87. See if the starter cranks over the engine.

Roy
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Tuesday, October 30th, 2018 AT 12:55 PM
Tiny
JMAN74
  • MEMBER
  • 32 POSTS
Sorry I only tested for voltage to light the bulb at 30 with clip on neg terminal. Tested 87 with clip on positive. I used the jump wire and the starter will turn all day. Nothing else.
I should note if I have not already that I also replaced the TRS sensor with a new one. While in test mode the displays shows "$MIS" when I navigate to the PRND input
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Tuesday, October 30th, 2018 AT 1:04 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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Okay, then the load side of the relay is good.

If you have power to the control side in the start position as you stated, the PCM is not grounding the relay to energize the load side. The only signal it looks at is the range sensor input. It needs to see park or neutral.

Can you verify park or neutral on your scan tool?

Roy
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Tuesday, October 30th, 2018 AT 1:12 PM
Tiny
JMAN74
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  • 32 POSTS
Ok thats exactly what I thought from the diagram. I wont have the OBD until later today and Ill see if I find it there along with any pertinent TC's. All I have electronically to check now is the cars Engineering Test Mode on the display which shows "$MIS" when I navigate to the PRND status.
Is the TN/RED from TRS outbound charged if the shift lever is in P/N?
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Tuesday, October 30th, 2018 AT 1:21 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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In park or neutral, that wire should have power. It goes to the relay.

Roy
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Tuesday, October 30th, 2018 AT 1:27 PM
Tiny
JMAN74
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Okay, I will check that along with the BRN/PK input from ignition (on start) while I wait for scan tool and meter.
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Tuesday, October 30th, 2018 AT 1:29 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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Sounds like a plan.

Keep me updated.

Roy
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Tuesday, October 30th, 2018 AT 1:34 PM
Tiny
JMAN74
  • MEMBER
  • 32 POSTS
Hey Roy,

Okay, so I have not been able to get my hands on the scan tool. I did however get the meter. Here is what I checked and results.
At starter relay sockets (With Key in "run" position)
PIN 30 - 12.8 V
PIN 87 - 0
PIN 86 - 9.7 V
PIN 85 - 9.7 V
I am assuming that because 85 gets its ground from PCM that I have an issue from PCM and because 85 is + volts I am getting the proper signal from the TRS correctly?

Thanks!
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Thursday, November 1st, 2018 AT 1:05 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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86 needs a signal when the key is in the start position.

Did you check that with the key in the start position?

Roy
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Thursday, November 1st, 2018 AT 1:14 PM
Tiny
JMAN74
  • MEMBER
  • 32 POSTS
The readings are almost identical on 85 and 86 in all key positions.
Key off - 0.3
Key on - 8.97
Key in start - 8.97

Once the ignition is released from start position the readings drop to 0.3 again on both pins. If turned to start position without turning the key off then the readings go from
ON - 0.3
START - 8.97
ON - 0.3
etc
If I return to the off position then each time I go from off to start it begins at 8.97. Am I making sense? Lol
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Thursday, November 1st, 2018 AT 1:32 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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The fact is there is not enough voltage to close the control side of the relay.

It needs to be the same voltage as 30 in the start position. The issue is no voltage to that pin. It comes from the range sensor when the transmission is in park or neutral.

Roy
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Thursday, November 1st, 2018 AT 1:45 PM
Tiny
JMAN74
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Ah, well let me tell you this then.
I noticed when I was hold my test light on PIN 85 the radio turns on when key is in "on" position. When I remove it it goes off.
Then while testing the harness at TRS in/out same thing.
Do not know if it helps identify or not but it happened. Lol
Should I unwrap the wiring in that area to see where I may be losing voltage?

So you are saying the PCM will not send that ground signal until 86/85 gets matching volts to 30?
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Thursday, November 1st, 2018 AT 1:52 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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Look at the diagram and check the brown/pink wire for voltage.

Roy
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Thursday, November 1st, 2018 AT 1:57 PM
Tiny
JMAN74
  • MEMBER
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Okay, the brown/pink wire has 12 volts at the TRS, so does the tan/red at the TRS when the key is in start.
The relay is only getting the 9 volts.
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Thursday, November 1st, 2018 AT 3:40 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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Okay, good.

Then you have a wiring harness issue between the range sensor and the relay. You will need to check the harness for damage.

Roy
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Thursday, November 1st, 2018 AT 3:52 PM
Tiny
JMAN74
  • MEMBER
  • 32 POSTS
Okay. A visual on the harness looks good. All those wires do go into what looks like a big rectangle shape junction box. Should I only trace the tan/red wire all the way to the relay looking for issues?
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Thursday, November 1st, 2018 AT 4:04 PM

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