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Engine Misfire

Tiny
JAY_IN_SF
  • MEMBER
  • 2004 KIA AMANTI
  • 3.5L
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 110,000 MILES
Following a spark plug and wire change and subsequent ignition fail sensor (part 27370 38000) change the car is not running well. It turns over but need to keep foot on accelerator to keep running (still rough). The code reader is not consistent and the mis fire likely causing other issues: ignition coil issue, o2 open circuit, throttle valve circuit high, throttle valve circuit low - these codes come and go.

While car was running I pulled back the spark plug wire (connecting spark plug 1 and the coil on top of spark plug 4) and there was no sparking. I tried same with other wires and coils and there was sparking. I rotated the coils just to see if coil was bad and once again when pulled back the wire connecting to 1 there was no sparking. I changed spark plug 4 and tried again. Once again no sparking. I did not do any testing etc with spark plugs or wiring at 1 3 or 5 as they are covered with the exhaust manifold

With the key 'on':
I checked all the fuses and no bad fuses. I checked the wire harness to coil 4 and it responded the same as coil 6 - left most terminal was hot with 12v light tester. I do not have diagram of the electrical connector at the coil but have attached diagram of the wire harness leading into all the coils.

I checked the throttle valve sensor and it did not feel bound up - I did not hook it up to any diagnostic equipment as thought the ignition failure probably caused the the throttle code. I hope I put it back correctly- if you have tips on how to judge let me know.

Any idea what is is causing the 1/4 mis fire? Could the new sensor be faulty?
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Tuesday, July 14th, 2015 AT 9:53 AM

16 Replies

Tiny
JAY_IN_SF
  • MEMBER
  • 37 POSTS
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Wednesday, July 15th, 2015 AT 10:48 AM
Tiny
JAY_IN_SF
  • MEMBER
  • 37 POSTS
TPS- when I physically turned the sensor it sprang back nicely. I reinstalled the sensor. Since trouble shooting have connected and disconnected the wiring to sensor many times. I noticed sometimes when I disconnect the wiring from sensor can hear it click (or spring releasing) - is this indicative of a failing sensor? Or does the sensor position need to be adjusted (the mounting wholes are slotted to allow a little tuning)?
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Wednesday, July 15th, 2015 AT 12:32 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,814 POSTS
Cylinder 1 and 4 are not getting sparks and with so many weird codes, I would suggest checking the PCM. Ensure the connections are clean and tight. Check for bad ground wires.
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Monday, July 20th, 2015 AT 10:56 AM
Tiny
JAY_IN_SF
  • MEMBER
  • 37 POSTS
Not sure how but have developed a short in ignition system.

As you may recall I have had a bit of trouble with 2004 Kia Amanti. Since doing a spark plug and wires replacement have had several issues. The crank no start was traced to faulty Ignition failure sensor. Once replaced car started but not firing on the 1-4 coil. I pulled back the spark plug wire to 1 to look for arc but nothing. The coil at that location was very hot to the touch while others were not. I have juggled the coils around but problem has stayed with middle coil. I even changed the new spark plug with another new plug just in case. I also noticed that the ignition coil condensor wire was damaged and spliced together - I have been told this is meaningless as only to reduce interference for radio.

I thought maybe the the new ignition failure sensor might be no good so I jumpered the sensor by connecting the pink and green wires (from left to right: black, white, pink, green). The green one is hot when tested with 12v light.

It worked for a few minutes BUT now getting blown fuse ( 20 amp ignition fuse number 8 under hood). Everytime I have it jumpered, as soon as turn key from on to start blow fuse.

(With the ignition fail sensor jumpered and key on ) I have also blown the fuse when reconnecting the wiring harness to the coils.

With the Ignition failure sensor jumpered and key on, the wiring harness pin 1 is hot. I connected the 12v test light to + battery terminal and tested Pin 5 for ground - lit up. I also tested the other pins and got a weak light on pin 3 and also on Pin 2 and nothing on 1 and 4.

What does the weak light on mean?

What is the PCM?

Do you have a way to test the coils using a multi meter?
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Monday, July 20th, 2015 AT 11:07 AM
Tiny
JAY_IN_SF
  • MEMBER
  • 37 POSTS
The harness diagram
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Monday, July 20th, 2015 AT 11:16 AM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,814 POSTS
PCM = Power Control Module, Engine computer.

You cannot bypass sensors. That could have fried the PCM.

Weak light is correct as the wire from PCM works on around 5 volts.
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Monday, July 20th, 2015 AT 11:29 AM
Tiny
JAY_IN_SF
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  • 37 POSTS
Ok. I hope did not fry the pcm. Will not jumper any longer.

Since.I do not. Get. Weak light on pin 4 and do on 2 wnd 3 what does that indicate?
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Monday, July 20th, 2015 AT 11:43 AM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,814 POSTS
The PCM is not providing the voltage so most probably it is bad.
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Friday, July 24th, 2015 AT 1:38 PM
Tiny
JAY_IN_SF
  • MEMBER
  • 37 POSTS
Is PCM same as ECM - electronic control module? I believe this car has an immobilizer unit (as far as I know all Amanti in US came with it). The link below shows 3 different computers - will I need the one with immobilizer or is the immobilizer something that sits on top/attahced to the ECM?

http://www.kiapartsoverstock.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=1066403&ukey_product=7219746

I see many ECMs for sale on ebay - provinding I can sort out which ECM I will need, in general is this a practical alternative?
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Friday, July 24th, 2015 AT 1:54 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,814 POSTS
Yes, PCM = ECM and they are not interchangeable. What you need to get is the part number as printed on the ECM and match it with the part that you are purchasing.

Before getting the ECM, check the wiring from the ignition coil to the ECM. Ensure they are good.
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Saturday, July 25th, 2015 AT 9:01 AM
Tiny
JAY_IN_SF
  • MEMBER
  • 37 POSTS
I can not see the ECM any where in the engine compartment. Is it inside the car?

Any tips on what to look for when ordering ECM on ebay?
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Monday, August 3rd, 2015 AT 9:49 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,814 POSTS
It is behind the center of dash, under the radio.

ECM are only for specific models so yuou need to match the parrt number exactly.
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Sunday, August 9th, 2015 AT 5:05 AM
Tiny
JAY_IN_SF
  • MEMBER
  • 37 POSTS
Do I need to remove the radio to access the ECM?

I found video for stereo removal but if possible would like to get to ECM without removing stereo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc1L4bs-IOA
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Tuesday, August 11th, 2015 AT 3:51 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,814 POSTS
No, you need not remove the radio.
From passengetr side or driver side, flip the carpet at side of center console and you should see the ECM. You might have to remove the center console if access is restricted.
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Wednesday, August 12th, 2015 AT 7:08 AM
Tiny
JAY_IN_SF
  • MEMBER
  • 37 POSTS
I will have to remove the center console and/or other plastic under steering wheel. I purchased a repair manual for the 2004-2008 Amanti but it is not very helpful. Do you have any schematics of how these pieces come apart?
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Friday, August 14th, 2015 AT 10:22 AM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,814 POSTS
Our database is not very descriptive on this. Removing lower dash covers should not be too difficult. If you look carefully around you should be able to find out how to do it. Check for screws first, some could be hidden. Tug at panels and try to ascertain the location of clipped areas.
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Saturday, August 15th, 2015 AT 8:01 PM

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