Erratic idle and engine running rough

Tiny
RSTIVERS1989
  • MEMBER
  • 1993 PONTIAC SUNBIRD
  • 3.1L
  • V6
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 30,000 MILES
Alright folks, I need some real help with this one, it is a doozy.

I have an erratic idle with my near mint car that is listed above.

Sometimes: Start car up, goes to 2,000 RPMs then settles instantly to regular idle (700ish without A/C, 1000-1100 with AC on).

Sometimes: Start car up cold, goes to 2,000 RPMs and stays at 2,000, or waffles between 1,000 RPMs and 2,000 RPMs, sounds really rough, eventually code 35 (IAC Issues) pops. Engine is clearly missing during this 1,000 - 2,000 RPMs issue.

Sometimes: The issue will happen if the car is warm (200+) but not 220 degree, again, code 35, 1,000-2,000 RPMs.

Always: When engine is at 220 degrees, shut off, and then restarted the issue Always happens. Again, code 35, 1,000-2,000 RPMs.

Note: Data below is reflected in all circumstances (normal operation + during erratic idle) - I do not know if these are relevant, but they seemed interesting to my uneducated mind.

-Exhaust 02 Stays Rich for 30 seconds, then goes Lean/Rich back and forth constantly
-Battery starts out at 10.5 volts and drops as low as 8.5


Things I have already done:
Replaced IAC
Replaced Throttle Body Gasket
Replaced Battery
Replaced Throttle Position Sensor
Replaced O2S Sensor
Replaced Radiator and Heater Core (this solved a pre-existing "running hot" issue)
Replaced Thermostat
Replaced PCV Valve
Replaced TCC Solenoid
Replaced all Coolant Hoses
Replaced Water Crossover Coolant By-Pass Tube
Fuel System Cleaning with Intake Manifold Cleaning using Motor Vac Fuel Injection Cleaning System
Cleaned Throttle Body
Cleaned IAC
Cleaned pretty much every terminal I can find

Prior work on the car done recently (likely unrelated to the issue, but noting just for posterity):
Air Conditioning Compressor Replaced
Serpentine Belt and Tensioner Replace
Rear Brakes (Full) Replacement (Calipers, Rotors, etc)
ABS Front Right Wheel Sensor Replaced
Spark Plugs and Wires

My current thought is that it might be an issue with the ECM or the Fuel Injectors, but with the Fuel System having been cleaned so recently, I was leaning towards ruling out the Fuel System.

Note: I have an Acutron OBDI reader that can give me live diagnostic data, I can provide data on specific points if it will be helpful.

Would be grateful for any assistance you can offer, sadly there are limited mechanics in my area willing to tackle these problems.
Monday, June 28th, 2021 AT 6:22 PM

3 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Hi,

The first thing that caught my attention is the battery voltage. Where are you getting that reading that shows a drop in voltage?

As far as the idle issue, it is likely related to the IAC. Battery voltage can cause things like this to happen as well, so I need to confirm the charging system is working.

Also, an engine vacuum leak can be a culprit as well.

Since you have the right scanner, take a look at the pics below. They are the diagnostics specific to this code. Let me know if you are comfortable performing the tests.

Also, confirm the charging system is working properly. Here is a link that explains how to test the alternator:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-a-car-alternator

Let me know what you find or if you have other questions.

Take care,

Joe

See pics below.
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Monday, June 28th, 2021 AT 9:35 PM
Tiny
RSTIVERS1989
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
Hey there!

Thank you so much for your thorough reply. I am receiving that Voltage reading off of the OBD1 reader. The voltage reading at the battery and at the alternator is correct (14.2-14.6 running).

I have the Pontiac Service Manual and unfortunately, the test for DTC 35 (the picture) requires a tool that I do not have, the IAC Driver and Node Light Kit. I have cleaned out the IAC multiple times, connectors are good. I am not getting a "consistent" system too lean or too rich, as noted above it calls for rich at the beginning, but then fluctuates Lean/Rich - we also replaced the 02S sensor and did a fuel injector cleaning and replaced the fuel filter so (theoretically) that should be ruled out. I also have found no evidence of an engine vacuum leak. I've completed everything under the "Diagnostic Aids" on the list provided.

The only thing I can think of is the fuel lines are rusted on the inside and despite the fuel cleaning and fuel filter are still causing issues?
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Wednesday, June 30th, 2021 AT 10:23 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Hi,

The fuel lines are not likely the issue. Fuel pressure could be. However, chances are you have checked that. Also, a faulty PCV valve could be the issue. Have you checked that as well?

Joe
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Wednesday, June 30th, 2021 AT 9:21 PM

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