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Truck quits running

Tiny
T-TEST
  • MEMBER
  • 1995 DODGE TRUCK
  • 5.9L
  • V8
  • 4WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 188,000 MILES
Have this Ram truck 1500, code Z, auto transmission.
Ran beautiful for five years with regular maintenance and tires. Check engine light has never worked. Coming back from Florida pulling an enclosed car trailer the catalytic converter came apart and stopped up the exhaust. Limped it home okay, about ninety miles. Had new catalytic converter, muffler and intermediate pipe replaced, as well as the O2 sensor, wires burnt. NAPA unit. Muffler shop. The next year going over Black
Mountain, the transmission temperature light came on. Made it to Pigeon Forge OK, and back home to N.C.
Transmission acted funny and started to shift [banging] hard into overdrive. Had transmission replaced, [A518]? With a new torque catalytic converter. Had troubles shifting into overdrive and fourth gear. He had left the TV cable unhooked and burnt the overdrive clutches. Replace the clutches and still would not shift. Diagnosed as
the "transmission temperature switch", and replaced. NAPA unit. Transmission repair mechanic. Transmission worked fine but I noticed the engine idle was lower than it used to be. Truck started to run rough, so had a tune up of plugs, wires, cap and rotor button, and they wrung a screw off at the distributor cap. Replace the distributor, NAPA unit. Broke oil pressure switch while doing this. Replaced NAPA unit, and had a water leak at the timing cover. Had new steel timing gears and double roller chain and gaskets replaced. Truck would not stay running for a very long period of time, leave you on side of the road. Diagnosed as EGR and transducer. Both burnt out. NAPA units. Still would not keep running. IAC control, TPS, crank sensor, cam sensor for the new distributor, and the ECM replaced. First repair shop, friend? Still cutting off. Second repair shop, where I used to work, replaced the coil and coil wire. Did not make it home.
Third repair shop the guy spent two weeks chasing wires and ohm-ed them back to the ECM, as well as replacing the crank sensor and the cam sensor, again, and said they were okay, before he had to quit to have back surgery.

I am at a loss.

Any suggestions as to a definite coarse to take without paying $130.00 per hour to diagnose or repair?

Ignition switch? Fuse panel under hood? Wiring harness? Wrong ECM? Gave numbers on original to match up. Reprogram ECM? At dealership? I have spent a lot of money to keep this truck and would hate to scrap it or sell it for peanuts.
Thanks


Does the check engine light have to work to store/read codes?
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Wednesday, June 6th, 2018 AT 11:18 AM

18 Replies

Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 13,480 POSTS
If you do not have one, go buy one of the $100.00 or so code readers that will display live data. That will show you if it has stored codes but also let you watch it as it runs to see what goes away when it shuts off.

The CEL bulb could be burnt out but it would still store codes. If it is the actual memory circuits that are the issue then it would not. But if the ECM was replaced and still no light then I would suspect it is bulb related.

Does the running time seem to be constant before it shuts down?
Does temperature have any effect IE: hotter run time becomes shorter?
When it shuts off is it abrupt like you turned off the key or is it more like it is running out of gas?
How long do you need to wait until it restarts?
Have you checked it to see if it was losing spark or fuel when it shuts down? If not get a can of starting fluid, run it until it shuts down and spray some into the intake and see if it tries to restart. If it does it could be a failing fuel pump or plugged filter that is not letting fuel through. Or even a bad tank vent that is starving it for fuel, when it shuts off try the spray, then go back and try removing the fuel cap, do you hear a hiss as it opens? That would be a bad vent.
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Thursday, June 7th, 2018 AT 6:25 PM
Tiny
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Does not have OBDII I have no scanner. CEL has never worked. Must it work to set and store codes? Crank in morning to warm up, and shuts off in less than ten minutes or could go as long as a week before it quits again. Just quits as if you turn the ignition off. Could go until next day before it starts again. Four different mechanics with scanners hook up to truck and I start it up, it runs and then shuts off. Nothing on scanners to tell what happens. Check spark at coil, none. Put coil wire back on and sometimes it will crank back up. Still have voltage to coil, but no spark. Always have fuel pressure at the fuel rail. Never tested PSI.
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Friday, June 8th, 2018 AT 4:16 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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The light itself does not need to work. The computer that turns it on/off does. The light is only there to tell you the ECM sees a problem.

I think the third shop was looking for the right cause, something is shutting the signal to the coil off. Like the reference voltage to the sensors is going out. Because you had a bunch of transmission troubles you may want to look at the wiring harness to the speed sensor. It uses the same 8 volt feed as the crank and cam sensors. If it was grounding out on the engine, trans or in the sender itself it could be removing power from the sensors and you get no signal to the PM to tell it to fire the injectors or plugs.
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Friday, June 8th, 2018 AT 10:29 AM
Tiny
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Can you give location of speed sensor? I guess that is one that has not been replaced. Do not know because I have never checked behind someone else's work. Dummy me.
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Friday, June 8th, 2018 AT 12:56 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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I am not saying to replace it but it is on the transmission and every time it was removed and reinstalled could have damaged the wiring to it. The harness runs from the transmission up to the rear of the engine and if it was rubbing or hitting the exhaust or similar it could be a problem.
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Friday, June 8th, 2018 AT 6:55 PM
Tiny
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Took the instrument cluster out to switch known bulbs around to get check engine light to work. Still not working with a known good bulb. Instrument cluster printed circuit board not broken or burned anywhere. Put back together and now tachometer and volt meter not working.

If not for bad luck I would have none.

Truck still cut off after about ten minutes, and then backfired out the exhaust when tried to restart and still no start since yesterday. Do not have time to play around with wires for very long. Just have to look at and visualize what they show.

I am losing my connection to this truck more and more every day!
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Thursday, June 14th, 2018 AT 3:33 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
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BTDT. I would look real close at the connector to the panel. It does not take much to bend a pin or have one that is loose enough to cause issues.
As for the tachometer not working, I would go look at the crank position sensor, they are known to fail as they get hot and when they fail completely you get no tachometer motion while cranking and the engine will not run. Even though it was tested "good" I have seen them still be bad.

These are the IP circuit diagrams, might help you think through those at least.
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Thursday, June 14th, 2018 AT 6:03 PM
Tiny
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Tachometer and volt meter quit after I removed and replaced the instrument cluster, and the crank sensor is new.
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Saturday, June 16th, 2018 AT 5:25 AM
Tiny
MIKE H R
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Just for trying something, disconnect the battery cable on the positive side, take that cable and ground it out, leave it off for a few minutes, that gives the ECM time to clear codes. Then hook it back up and you will probable need to drive it about thirty miles before the computer reads codes. I was always told that when pulling a trailer that to use a lower gear to keep the transmission cooler. This may or may not help but it is worth the try.
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Tuesday, June 19th, 2018 AT 6:43 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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Backfire still sounds like a timing issue and that is controlled by the crank sensor. But I have also seen O2 sensors in a Dodge 5.9 do that same thing. The sensors would drop offline for a second and you would get a bucking, lunging and then a backfire. The other issue on the 5.9 is vacuum leaks due to the intake pan gasket failing. In the case of a large backfire it may have blown that gasket out and now it has a large vacuum leak under the manifold.
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Tuesday, June 19th, 2018 AT 1:49 PM
Tiny
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Truck idles and runs great! Just do not know when it will quit. Since all this work was done. Hard to believe that after a new catalytic converter and muffler with a new O2 sensor, new/rebuilt distributor and timing chain and gears, EDR valve and transducer plus IAC valve, TPS, crank sensor, transmission temperature switch, oil pressure switch, coil, plugs, wires as well as ECM plus transmission and torque converter by competent technicians. Just quits as if you turned the key off. And it only backfires when I try to restart it after it shuts down. Not while driving. Never just quits.

Never pull any trailer in overdrive.

Always has pressure at the fuel rail, do not know how much, yet. Will put gauge on it when I get back to it.

No vacuum leaks or it would not idle smoothly or steady before it shuts down while letting it warm up in the mornings. Or going to the grocery store a mile away, or it may run for fifty miles before quitting again. All it takes is money to pay someone else to fix it for high labor rate as I am not physically able to do this type work any longer.

And have you ever tried to tell a mechanic/technician how to do their job or what has already been done? After thirty five years of being one, I never thought my job was about the money, just the quality of my work and experience as well as knowledge to do more better, faster.
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Wednesday, June 20th, 2018 AT 6:30 AM
Tiny
MIKE H R
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I do not think we touched on the subject but what about the fuel pump screen, have seen it happened to my wife's Firebird would be driving along and would quit, then it would start back up. Took it to a garage and it was there a month, they said they could not get it to shut down. Come to find out after we got tired of it being there a friend recommended check the fuel system. Pulled the fuel tank and found that the fuel pump screen was just about completely clogged. Changed the screen and fuel filter and have not had a problem since. The instrument cluster was it the same one you took out and put back in?
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Wednesday, June 20th, 2018 AT 7:03 AM
Tiny
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Same instrument cluster. Fuel has never seemed to be a problem. Have not seen any thing in wiring diagrams on oil pressure switch to fuel pump wiring to suggest it shuts off fuel pump or the ASD relay.

Temperatures have been 90* -95* and above with 78% to 95% humidity. I will get back on it as soon as I can.
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Friday, June 22nd, 2018 AT 6:43 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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No rush, the recent heat wave has made working in anything but an AC equipped shop a bit harsh. The human body does not like breathing hot water.

You said that the O2 sensor wires had been damaged before and repaired? When it cools down you might want to look at that repair as well as farther up the harness. Shutting down like you turned off the key would likely be a loss of spark. As for all the new parts helping, maybe, but I have seen parts that did not work right out of the box and others that failed within a few thousand miles. That is why I always test any of the suspect parts even if they were just replaced.
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Friday, June 22nd, 2018 AT 9:28 AM
Tiny
MIKE H R
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As Steve said that even new parts did not work right, not good at the computer stuff. Hot down here in South Carolina too, yesterday over 100. Just a thought, it happened to me. Had a catalytic converter put on my old truck when it went bad, they put another one on and within a month that one went. When it is dark out run the truck for a while then shut it off and look to see if the converter glows red. As I said it is a thought.
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Friday, June 22nd, 2018 AT 11:25 AM
Tiny
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Finally got truck running!

If there are any Dodge Dealership technicians on this forum, you should have spoken up as to what I was going through. If not I apologize.

With an OBDII system it is programmable by the dealership or any other business that has the software for their scanners to do so and most will not because of legal issues with emissions. They just install another one at your expense.

With an OBDI system, it cannot be programmed by anyone other than a manufacturer, be it Dodge or Cardone or whomever makes/rebuilds them and for the VIN of that truck. I found all this out by paying another $900.00 to the dealership plus $354.99 for the PCM that I bought from Flag Ship One in N.Y. And got it in six days and had the gauge cluster replaced to find that no one knows as much as they think they do about Dodge trucks. The dealership replaced the coil and distributor pickup and said they were bad. This was the third ones of these two items. That is on top of the first time I went to pick up the truck and it quit right in their parking lot and the guy they sent out to check it just started beating on the fuel tank so I told him to stop and just smell the raw gas from the engine and that the fuel pump was not the problem and if it was replaced he would pay for it, not me.

I have truly learned my lesson on Dodge and just wish I could find an honest mechanic/technician some where that want rip me off or lie or just be a parts re-placer without verifying that is the problem.

I thank you all for your help and wish you better luck than I have had. It is not that the truck is irreplaceable, it is just hard to find or get the stuff this one has without it costing $50, 00.00 to $80,000.00 for a newer model that I really do not like. There is more that I found out about how the scanners work and what they read and what can be done by a technician and what he will/will not tell you. Another story all together. Now you know why I hate/dislike computers and electronics although sometimes they are good things, but everyone cannot fix or use them.

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Thursday, August 2nd, 2018 AT 5:16 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
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Glad to hear you got it running.

Actually both can be programmed if you have the correct tools and access to the software. That is the biggest issue these days as that access is expensive and the tools needed are even more and the OEMs do not want anyone but dealerships to have that access. However, many shops do programming as a routine thing as this is becoming the "normal" mode of repair. Shops that say they do not do it because of emissions are actually saying, "we do not have the tools or training and do not want to pay to get either one".

Thank you for using 2CarPros. Com.
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Thursday, August 2nd, 2018 AT 9:38 AM
Tiny
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Thanks Steve, I just wished I would have known what I now know so I would not have sunk so much money into it and bought another brand. But at least I mostly have a new truck if the engine holds up.
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Thursday, August 2nd, 2018 AT 2:28 PM

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