Seems to have intermittent spark

Tiny
78CJ5
  • MEMBER
  • 1978 JEEP CJ5
  • 4.2L
  • 6 CYL
  • 4WD
  • MANUAL
  • 100,000 MILES
It had sat for years without being started. It was originally parked because it needed serious body work (floor was gone). When it was parked it was running fine. So before trying to start it, I drained the gas tank and put new gas in. I did an oil and filter change. I inspected and cleaned the distributor cap. I changed the spark plugs and when I had them out I fogged the engine. I put in a new battery, It would not turn over. I put in a new starter and starter celluloid. It would turn over but not start. I replaced the ground wire from the battery to the block as it was well worn. It fired up but ran only for a minute and quit. Intermittently it will fire up but run for only a minute or so. I have done the 2 part resistance check on the coil and it seems good. I went out and bought an in line ignition spark tester and tested it today and I am not getting spark. I am not sure how to proceed.
Thursday, August 8th, 2019 AT 10:45 AM

18 Replies

Tiny
78CJ5
  • MEMBER
  • 12 POSTS
So after reading some post on here I tested to see if there was spark from the main coil wire by disconnecting from the distributor and leaning it against the engine while turning it over. I saw no spark. I also put a volt meter to the positive terminal of the coil with the ignition on, and was only getting 6.4 volts and it went down to 5.2 when turning it over.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Thursday, August 8th, 2019 AT 11:26 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
Just to start out.

How about a picture of your distributor.

Fill a squirt bottle up about 1/3 of the way with fuel.

Adjust it so that it shoots a mist.

Do this outside, away from anything you deem dear to you, keep a soaking wet towel and a fire extinguisher handy. You will probably be fine, but things can and will happen at the worst of times!

Crank up the Jeep and see if you can "nurse" it along shooting it in the carburetor to keep it running as long as you can.

If this works well, we will chase a fuel issue.

Send results!

The Medic
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Thursday, August 8th, 2019 AT 7:02 PM
Tiny
78CJ5
  • MEMBER
  • 12 POSTS
Thank you so much for getting back to me, I was hoping it was going to be you who responded. I have been reading some of your other posts. I will try the spray trick, though I should mention that in the last couple of days I have been unable to get it to fire up at all. Also in my rather lengthy first post I forgot to mention that I have tested the fuel pump. Mine is equipped with an electric fuel pump (though I believe the Hanes book suggests it came stock with a mechanical). I disconnected the hose before the fuel filter and placed it in a jar and then turned the key on. It pulsated fuel out at what seemed like a good rate.
I will try to turn it over this morning with the spray bottle and get back to you with my results. I can't wait to be driving my CJ, once I get it fixed up it will be my daily commuter again.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Friday, August 9th, 2019 AT 4:35 AM
Tiny
78CJ5
  • MEMBER
  • 12 POSTS
Unfortunately I was unable to get it to fire up this morning.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Friday, August 9th, 2019 AT 6:08 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
Maybe this has been Frankensteined?

This looks to be a Motorcraft distributor.

This would be an upgrade to be more like a '79 CJ (which is a good thing!)

If that is the coil a few inches up at 12 O'clock, it is not the correct/ normal one for a '79.

I don't like electric pumps, expensive, can overpower the carburetor needle/ seat/ float. It might also become a constant flamethrower in a wreck. If your carburetor is "normal" a cheap (like $20) mechanical fuel pump is more than adequate. Many folk's friend's talks one into "over engineering" their Jeep, actually making things much harder to work on.

Take a pic of that carburetor too!

I have a 4 barrel 390 Holley mounted on an Offenhauser intake on my 258 6 cylinder, the original mechanical fuel pump works just fine.

When I upgraded my '77, I changed everything ignition to be as close to a '79 as possible. The only additional item I "had to have" to make it all work was a ballast resistor. This was needed because the '77 had a plain Jane wire feeding the coil (the '79 had a resistance wire)

The major reason I made it all be like a '79 is so that when I needed any ignition tune up parts (for maintenance), I simply asked at the parts store parts for my 1979 (instead of confusing them with a '77 w/ Prestolite) or any other "oddball part" that "could work" but complicate the process maybe five years down the road when this might not be so fresh on my mind.

Let's get a better pic of your coil and ignition module too!

As far as spark testing, this little booger is cheap (around $15) and so easy to use, and is hands free too. It snaps onto your installed spark plug and the spark plug wire snap onto the other end.

You can get this at a parts store, I think mine came from Advance Auto Parts. See pic below.

The Medic

P.S. Don't let that rust take over (it can get out of hand quick!), You have a nice looking Jeep.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Friday, August 9th, 2019 AT 7:05 PM
Tiny
78CJ5
  • MEMBER
  • 12 POSTS
Thanks for the response. I would not be surprised if it has been Frankenstiened, that would explain why none of the pictures and diagrams I see of other 1978's look like mine.
I hope these pictures show what you need, if not let me know and I will take more. I do have one of those testers (the little booger) I mentioned it in my first post, I probably called it by the wrong name. The last few times I have tested, I am not getting spark.
I hear you about the rust, I am currently practicing my body work skills (most specifically welding) so I can fix it up right.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Saturday, August 10th, 2019 AT 7:58 AM
Tiny
78CJ5
  • MEMBER
  • 12 POSTS
And the rest.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Saturday, August 10th, 2019 AT 7:59 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
I have two tests for you.

First) Voltmeter hooked to the positive side of the coil-negative side to the negative battery.

Key "on"

What is your voltage?

Now carefully, not going crazy,

Jiggle and move around your wires as if you were idling or riding down the road. Especially where they meet items such as the distributor/ coil/ module. Maybe do some jiggling on the column on the other side of the dash where the ignition switch is located. Do it everywhere while watching the voltmeter for glitching (turning off) You might even have someone else do the watching so you don't miss nothing!

2nd test) Take your ignition module to a parts store, I use Advance Auto Parts, have it tested 5 or more times in a row. If it fails once, replace it. Test the new one the same way before you leave. Not doing this might bite you in the butt, as it did me one time.

As nasty as your coil looks, I'd replace it just for preventative maintenance. If for getting the correct coil you might ask for one for a 1979 (for use with an external resistor) Regular/ cheap/ plain Jane coil. Don't let your friends talk you into space shuttle technology, there is really no benefit! (This will apply to most of your Jeep!)

Pics below

The Medic
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Saturday, August 10th, 2019 AT 10:17 AM
Tiny
78CJ5
  • MEMBER
  • 12 POSTS
Okay, so I did test 1 and the voltage was 6.71v. It did not fluctuate or shut off while I did the jiggle test. Unfortunately none of the parts stores in my area have a ignition module tester.
So on Monday I will take it to a garage and see if I can get a mechanic to run the test on it.
I will also pick up a new coil on Monday.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Saturday, August 10th, 2019 AT 11:53 AM
Tiny
78CJ5
  • MEMBER
  • 12 POSTS
Well today I had a pleasant surprise. I went out to the jeep this morning to assess some of the body work required and as is my custom I tried firing it up. Bam! First crank and she fired right up. And unlike the other times it did not stall. I actually got to take her for a spin up and down my street. It did stall once but then fired right back up. I'm wondering if it's because of the jiggle test you had me do. I know the problem is not fixed but I can't tell you how great it felt to drive her again.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, August 11th, 2019 AT 9:08 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
Wonderful!

Now let's get serious.

Fire it up and then start the jiggle testing all over again.

Go slow, wait a bit between jiggling different items, at first, be gentle and try to re-create bouncing, swaying, and the amount of "G"s the wires and harnesses' might pull.

You are looking for stutters and shutting down with the test. Go slow enough to be able spot the problem.

The Medic
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, August 11th, 2019 AT 5:15 PM
Tiny
78CJ5
  • MEMBER
  • 12 POSTS
I went out this morning and she fired right up. I had to work the gas for a minute or it felt like it would stall, but once she warmed up I took her for a quick spin. Back in the driveway I preceded to do the wiggle test. I took my time and went over everything twice, under the hood and dash. I could not get it to stall.
Would you recommend replacing the electric fuel pump back to a mechanical?
Also on an non mechanical question. Are you happy with your fiberglass tub? Did you get it from ShellValley?
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, August 12th, 2019 AT 8:18 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
My preference is the inexpensive, non-electric, pretty much bullet proof mechanical fuel pump. Always less than $25.00, usually a parts store stock item. I do keep a spare one in my Jeep, along with a coil and ignition module. It's tough to break me down!

If everybody here would chip in, I could get me a Shell Valley body for "Mr. Jeep"! I have the video on how to install it.

Yes, I love my fiberglass body on "Willy". It came from T.J. Vanderbosch somewhere near Chicago. I had to find and make my own cuts and holes in the body with nothing but the old rusted out body to go by. It is lighter, it has not rusted since 1991, it's quieter than a metal body. The best part was for $950, body work became a lot simpler! All of this happened before there was internet. Lots of phone calls!

Here's a few of before and after.

The Medic
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, August 12th, 2019 AT 4:57 PM
Tiny
78CJ5
  • MEMBER
  • 12 POSTS
Wow! Those are great pictures. Is that first one how you found it?
So today I replaced the coil and I think that may have been the issue. The new coil had threaded posts. I cut the green wire off the plastic piece that went over the old coil and when I went to cut the red wire it fell right out of the plastic piece. Some one had pig tailed on a second red wire( jumper) and it appears they just pushed it back in the plastic piece. Not sure why the wiggle test did not expose it (or maybe that's what loosened it enough to come out). I drove it up and down the street for quite a while and it did not stall. I then tried the wiggle test some more and could not get it to stall. I purchased the ignition module as well but I think for now I will keep it as a back up. My parts store did not have the fuel pump in stock but said they should have it by Wednesday. I will replace that as well as the master cylinder. I opened it the other day before taking it for a spin, to make sure I could stop. It was pretty rusted and since closing it back up, it now leaks.
I've been reading some post of guys who have used the Shell Valley tubs and apparently it's still a lot of precision work getting those tubs to fit.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, August 12th, 2019 AT 5:19 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
So, you think you got yours all ready to go?

After your riding around, did you climb out and commence to strutting around like a Bantam rooster?

Keep us posted as you progress.

Ole Willy was sitting maybe an 1/8th of a mile behind "Whitey's" house (a Korean War vet who let us hunt on his place).

Willy was sitting near a dead tractor in a field that the trees were taking over.

We probably walked up to and right by them maybe 50 times when we hunted.

Whitey said he was going to restore it one day.

We sort of knew that would never happen seeing his health condition.

One day I guess he crawled back into the real world and asked my friend and I if we wanted to buy it.

I thought I did okay for a hundred buck investment!

The entire neighborhood laughed when we brought Willy in on a trailer.

After two years in my rented duplex's one car garage, no one laughed at Willy again.

All I have is VHS footage, I converted to digital, these are screenshots of my restoration. Hence the poor quality of these pics.

I had always wanted a Willys, I was 27 years old and convinced myself that it was now or never!

I'm still tweaking on him (since 1991), he's pretty much looking the way I want him too

The Medic
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, August 12th, 2019 AT 6:54 PM
Tiny
78CJ5
  • MEMBER
  • 12 POSTS
Yeah, I bet that's the best $100. You ever spent.
I do think we might have got it. I can't seem to get it to stall again. I'll keep driving it up and down the street until the new tub gets here, then I'll have my work cut out for me. I will keep you posted and maybe send you some pictures along the way. And if it turns out we haven't quite got it figured out, you know I'll be back on here asking for your input. Thanks again for your help.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Tuesday, August 13th, 2019 AT 12:51 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
If drilling and cutting may be involved.

Go ahead and make you one of these boogers.

Short and sweet.

1/4 x 1 aluminum stock (hardware store)

2 nails about 8 penny

3/8 bolt x 3/4

Plastic knob w/ 3/8 metal female nut (mine was off of an abandoned stationary bike)

Hose clamp and pencil are optional, but highly recommended

Always make 2 or more marks from different locations, 90 degree or close to it angles make things more accurate.

I also used these "CJ MEDEVAC super dividers" when I cut access holes to my heater core and heater fan. I can now drop my battery tray out and be at both items come out in minutes through the firewall. I did make a graph/ diagram of the measurements.

No more taking my dash out!

A new fan motor is now made larger than the OEM (measure the diameter of one at a parts store if you doubt me!) So, it might be a good idea to make the hole the new size, even if you stay with the old one for now, and choose to remove the heater box to access your stuff (the regular way)

This too, is another modification I made. The '77 heater was crap, so I replaced it with an entire '82 ('79 on up to '86 was the better heater/ vent.) It fit well in the correct spot, however some of the '82 did not line up anchor-wise, so I had to tweak things to make it work.

Posting just a few of many of the pics.

The Medic
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Tuesday, August 13th, 2019 AT 4:00 PM
Tiny
78CJ5
  • MEMBER
  • 12 POSTS
That does look like it would be a handy tool, I will make me one of them. I got the new mechanical fuel pump in and got rid of that rusty old electric one. I also put in the new ignition module ( I had another instance where it cut out) and every thing seems to be running smooth. It is running hot though, I'm guessing the thermostat is stuck. So I'm picking one of those up tomorrow and I will do a rad flush as well.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Thursday, August 15th, 2019 AT 11:49 AM

Please login or register to post a reply.

Sponsored links