Codes P1521 and P3497, intermittent rumble sound from engine?

Tiny
BENLEE1199
  • MEMBER
  • 2006 DODGE RAM
  • 5.7L
  • V8
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 126,000 MILES
Hello, I am having an intermittent rumbling type of sound coming from the engine, which at the moment is only within the first few minutes of starting the cold engine. It is not a "low" rumble, it is a little more of a knock-rumble sound, but it is not engine knock. It appears to be random, and is not constant, and the sound can happen while at idle or driving, but always does it only a few times and then seems to go away completely for the duration of the trip. It also does not seem to be related to engine RPM, since the "rumble" speed or volume does not increase or decrease with acceleration or slowing down and is just as likely to happen at idle.

4 days ago, I first heard this sound about 4 days ago, but that time it was while driving at a steady 40-45 MPH and was a very similar experience where it would only last 1-2 seconds at a time, and only made that rumble sound about 3 separate times and did not make the sound again that day. 2 days later the engine began surging very mildly when going a steady speed, anywhere between 45-70 MPH. They felt almost like mild shifts or soft presses of the gas pedal. Nothing extreme, but enough for my wife and I to both notice that something was going on, and after about 20 minutes of driving the Check Engine light came on and shortly after that the surging stopped for the remainder of that trip. After getting back home I got out my code reader and pulled P1521("Incorrect oil viscosity") and P3497(“Cylinder Deactivation System Bank 2”). I did some research and quickly saw that many recommended to simply change the engine oil since that alone may solve the problem of the P1521 (incorrect oil) code, and may also solve the potential MDS problem that could be related to code P3497 (cylinder deactivation), so I changed my oil and filter, 5W-20 (I have always changed my own oil, and never put in anything besides the required 5W-20).
I cleared the codes and test drove it for about 10-15 minutes just to see if I had any issues or if the CE light would come back on but did not have any drivability issues or CE light.

1 day ago, yesterday morning, starting the engine cold and then driving for a 55-mile trip, it never made the sound once and no surging. But then yesterday afternoon when traveling back home it made the rumble sound (intermittently, only 1-2 sec. At a time, maybe 6 times total) after starting the cold engine, while at idle, and then for a few minutes of driving, then went away and never came back for the entire 55+ mile trip.

Today, this morning it made the sound about 3 times, each time only about 1 or 2 seconds, and only while idling. After beginning to drive the sound did not come back.

Recap, no surging at all since changing the oil and clearing the codes, and still no CE light, so the random/weird rumble sound from the engine is the only issue at the moment.

I might be inclined to look at replacing a MDS solenoid, but I'm thinking that would not be the issue since the sound I'm hearing happens at idle, not just when driving, and the MDS system would not be engaged at idle.

Not sure if freeze frame data would be helpful, but here are some data points for that, which is with the P1521 code (apparently Dodge does not support freeze frame for more than one code). Again, the CE light has not come back on yet, but I noted the freeze frame data before I cleared the codes.
ETC: 96 degrees C
MAP (kPa): 40
RPM: 624
VSS: 0 (the strange thing about this is that the CE light came on while driving (at least 60mph), so I'm not sure how it could show vehicle speed at 0)
TP(%): 14.5
RUNTM (sec): 393 (this is another strange one. I had been driving at least 15-20 minutes, not 393 seconds.

Thank you very much for any suggestions you can offer!
Wednesday, October 11th, 2023 AT 8:33 AM

13 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

By chance, is the oil light turning on or flickering? I ask because if the sensor is failing, it can cause the P1521. Also, have you removed any MDS solenoids to see if they are contaminated or have a blocked oil passage?

Also, do you have a bidirectional scan tool that can actuate the MDS solenoids to see if they are functional?

If you look below, I included the diagnostics for the P3497 code. Take a look through them and let me know if it is something you feel comfortable performing.

Take care,

Let me know.

Joe

See pics below.
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Wednesday, October 11th, 2023 AT 7:54 PM
Tiny
BENLEE1199
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It turns out that the noise was from something completely unrelated, but just happened to start occurring at the same time as the MDS and oil trouble codes! But to answer your question, the oil light has not come on at all, and is not flickering. I have not removed any of the MDS solenoids, but I was thinking about buying the Thinkdiag2 since it seems to be the best value for a scan tool that has bi-directional testing. Not sure how to confirm the limitations of the bi-directional functions, but hopefully it would be capable to commanding-on the MDS solenoids.

This evening I was able to start the engine cold and take a video of the exact time the noise occurred, and right in front of the engine it sounds a lot different than from inside the vehicle, so it is not really a "rumble" after all. In the video you can actually see the AC compressor clutch stop turning right when the first "rattle" sound happens, and the rattle stops the instant the AC clutch stops spinning. Then a few seconds later the AC clutch starts spinning again, and a few more seconds after that you can hear the rattle sound come back. But just like before, the rattles goes away shortly after and the AC compressor continues to spin without any noise and the AC system continues to function.

Anyway, it seems that perhaps the bearings in the AC compressor are going out?
Is there anything I can do to service this compressor clutch? Due to cost, I would really rather not replace the whole compressor, especially since that would mean evacuating the whole system, and re-charging it. In addition to the compressor cost itself.
Is there any way to either service, or just replace only the clutch on the compressor?
Thanks!
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Thursday, October 12th, 2023 AT 6:08 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

Wow, I agree it is related to the AC compressor/clutch. I noticed the first time it turned itself off, it seemed to lock. The remaining noises could be internal. I have a question. Has anything been done to the AC system? As far as replacing bearings, it would exceed the cost or a replacement. The only thing replaceable would be the clutch/coil. The coil is the electrical component that becomes an electromagnet when energized leading to the engagement of the compressor.

If I had to guess, I don't think that is where the issue is coming from. However, anything is possible. I feel it is within the compressor itself. If it was recharged recently, it could be overcharged or someone may have added too much PAG oil to the system. If it hasn't been serviced, that wouldn't have happened.

At this point, you could remove the clutch and inspect things for wear.

Let me know your thoughts.

Take care,

Joe
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Thursday, October 12th, 2023 AT 7:41 PM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
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Thanks for the video, you can see the clutch on the AC compressor has gone bad, also it seems like the system is overcharged, can you confirm by getting the high side reading?

This guide can help:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/re-charge-an-air-conditioner-system

If the high side is between 225 and 250 PSI,then you may have too much oil in it.
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Saturday, October 14th, 2023 AT 6:07 PM
Tiny
BENLEE1199
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Thanks for the replies Joe and Ken.
I did recharge the system recently since the A/C was not blowing as cold as it should be, though the system was functioning overall, but I just used the gauge on the AC Pro can since I don't have a set of manifold gauges. Though I think I will order a set so I can check the high side pressure. On the low side it was showing about 40, which is a little low, but more importantly to note: the pressure basically stayed the same even after adding about 18 ounces of refrigerant. So there must be something going on.
What would cause the low side pressure to not rise, even after adding that much refrigerant?
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Monday, October 16th, 2023 AT 1:52 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

That is a good question. However, Ken is a master of A/C systems so he will likely know exactly what is happening. On my end, I suspect it has to do with the clutch assembly not properly engaging. However, with the high side readings, which should tell us what is happening.

As far as the low side pressures are concerned, it is normal if the ambient temperature is around 80F when you checked it. The high side pressure should be approximately 170 PSI and 200 PSI at 80F.

See if one of the parts stores near you will lend you the A/C manifold gauge sets. Oftentimes, they will.

Let us know,

Joe
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Monday, October 16th, 2023 AT 7:32 PM
Tiny
BENLEE1199
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My new set of A/C manifold gauges arrived, so I checked the pressure and noticed right away that it was much too high on high side. Well over 300psi. I had it discharged and here is what I am seeing now with only a little refrigerant in it.

When first turning on the A/C with engine running, the low side goes to 10 psi and high side goes up to about 175psi, but then both low and high side slowly start climbing. The low side goes up to about 20 and the high side climbs up to 250 and continues slowly climbing up as high as 300. It takes several minutes of running to get up to 300 psi. After running

Now that the system was discharged, the low side is too low, indicating more refrigerant is needed, but the high side is still too high. The compressor is no longer stopping. It continues running and is not making any noises at all, but the AC is no longer blowing cool.

Previously before discharging it, it only blew cool and never truly cold. Now it is completely lukewarm and not cool at all. I would have thought that meant I just needed to add more refrigerant, but the high side is much too high still.

After sitting with the engine off for at least 45 minutes, the stagnant pressure on both the low and high side is about 60, but after starting the engine and turning on the AC again, the low side went to 0 and the high side to about 75. Within one minute the low side as at 6 and the high side at 150. Within 2 minutes the high side continued to climb up to 200 and the low side to 11. Another minute or 2 later the high side hit 225 and the low side was 14. Another minute and the high was at 250 and the low at 15.

What would cause the high side to keep slowly climbing and get to such a high PSI reading?
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Wednesday, October 18th, 2023 AT 11:12 PM
Tiny
KEN L
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This would be a clogged orifice tube, or the cooling fan is not working. I would discharge the system to check the orifice tube if the cooling fan is working good. Check out the images (below). Please let us know how it goes.
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Thursday, October 19th, 2023 AT 11:01 AM
Tiny
BENLEE1199
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The cooling fan is definitely working, so if the high pressure on the high side is caused by a clogged orifice tube, then do you think that it also the reason that the A/C was previously blowing cool but not cold? I'm just wondering if I should replace any other components at the same time as the orifice tube since I'm going to have to discharge/evacuate, vacuum down, and then re-charge again. I would hate for there to be another issue that I missed. Thanks, Ken!
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Friday, October 20th, 2023 AT 6:58 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

Ken is out of town for a couple of days, so you are stuck with me again. LOL Don't worry, he will jump back in if he feels it's needed.

As far as your question, yes. If the orifice tube is partially plugged, it will restrict the refrigerant from the evaporator preventing it from properly cooling.

When replacing the orifice tube, there are times when the evaporator itself may be clogged and need to be replaced.

At this point, I would focus on the orifice tube/liquid line. I feel that will take care of the problems. If Ken feels differently, I feel he will jump in.

Take care,

joe
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Saturday, October 21st, 2023 AT 10:32 PM
Tiny
BENLEE1199
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I hope you don't mind me changing the subject a little, but I am on to a separate issue with this truck now. I will be taking it in to have it evacuated and then re-charged properly. But I am not having a battery issue.

The truck began straining to started about a week ago, which sounded like a cold start without a fully charged battery, but this would not happen every time it was started - only some days. If I would sit in the truck with the radio on for 15 minutes, or leave the lights on by mistake for 5 minutes with the truck off, that would seem to be enough to drain the battery just enough to make the truck strain to start the next time. I assumed it was just the battery going bad, but when I load tested the battery I also checked for parasitic drain and seemed to have confirmed that it is draining.

I did a multimeter load test and set the meter to min/max while I started the engine. Battery voltage started at about 12.7V, then when starting it reached a low of 9.2V, and maxed at 14.99 with the engine/alternator running. Based on it being lower than 9.5V at it's low point during starting, I am guessing that the battery is bad. But at the same time, it seems I have a parasitic draw on the battery as well.

When the engine and all accessories off, and with either the neg or pos battery terminal disconnected, and a test light connected between the terminal connector and the post, the test light is lighting up bright, and with a very slight pulsing to it. You actually have to stare at the light very closely to notice the pulsing, so it is very subtle. I started pulling fuses to see what would shut off the test light, but the test light never turned off after pulling every single fuse. And this truck only has one fuse box to check, so I am at a loss as to where to go from here.

I also used a clamp amp meter on the battery positive cable and am getting between 1-2.5 Amps of draw, but I should mention that my meter seems to be acting funny and I am not trusting the amp readings 100%, because sometimes when I would take the clamp back off the battery cable, it would still read 1 amp. And when I checked it again later it was only reading 1 amp when clamped on the cable, but when I would open the clamp but keep the clamp hovered over the cable, the meter would immediately go up to 2.5 amps, and then when I would close the clamp around the cable again it was going back to only 1 amp.

Either way, I definitely have a parasitic draw, since the test light method is clearly confirming that. But I just can't find the source of the draw.
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Tuesday, October 31st, 2023 AT 10:39 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

I have a favor to ask. First, we welcome any questions you have. However, we try to keep the posts to one topic so that it is more helpful to others. Is it possible for you to copy and paste your new question to a new post?

Here is the link to start a new one:

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/new

I hope you understand.

Take care,

Joe
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Tuesday, October 31st, 2023 AT 6:51 PM
Tiny
BENLEE1199
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No problem, Joe. I went ahead and posted a new question just now. Thanks!
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Wednesday, November 1st, 2023 AT 6:26 AM

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