Long Cranking but runs smoothly afterwards?

NEEL

MEMBER
2012 MINI COUNTRYMAN
1.6L
4 CYL
4WD
AUTOMATIC
160,000 MILES

Hi,

After an oil change the car started long cranking, we cleaned the spark plugs (recently replaced) there was matt black carbon deposit on them. After cleaning it the yellow engine light was gone and the car started immediately, but then several days after it reappeared.

What has been checked and changed:

1. Battery changed.
2. Cam shaft sensors changed (there was a dealer specific code on old reader).
3. Fuses in engine bay checked.
4. Engine filter changed.
5. Air intake from filter to engine had a crack, it was repaired.
6. Alternator reads 14.6 volts when car is running so no problem there.
7. Spark plugs cleaned several times (changed a month ago).
8. 1 ignition coil changed.
9. Valve gasket replaced.

Starter has not been checked yet (please, suggest a simple way to check it without removing it).
HPFP not checked (please, suggest a simple way to check it without removing it).

Things to consider:

Matt black coating on spark plugs (signs of what? Rich fuel air mix?)

Considering to do.
flushing engine oil with Liquid MollyEngine flush and adding engine oil additive afterwards.

Please suggest what can be done at home garage?

Thanks in advance.
NEEL

7 Replies

JACOBANDNICKOLAS

MECHANIC
109,885 POSTS

Hi,

If the plugs are black, you are getting too much fuel. Did this happen right after the oil change? Is the air filter clean and not plugged?

If it did happen after the work was done, check the fuel rail pressure sensor. It is mounted on the fuel rail. Make sure the connector wasn't loosened or damaged. If disconnected, it will cause the fuel pressure to be off. However, the vehicle will still run. If the rail pressure sensor fails, the quantity control valve is activated in emergency operation so the engine will continue to run.

Let me know.

Take care,

Joe

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Wednesday, March 22nd, 2023 AT 7:34 PM

NEEL

MEMBER
4 POSTS

Hi Joe,

Firstly, thanks a lot for your reply
So, I think I have found the issue, it seems more of electric issue rather than mechanical
After a deep internet research, I tried one thing, and it solved the issue, but it reappears
it is the fuel pump play that is causing the long cranking and low engine power issue. so, what I did was as follows:

1. I Start the car (obviously long cranking with a check engine light (not urgent one).
2. Removed the Fuel pump relay from fuse box (The car stops immediately, and the actual engine check light comes up).
3. Turn off the car and Put the Fuel pump relay back into fuse box.
4. Connect OBD Code reader (has 3 Codes - manufacturer code it says - looked over the internet and it says timing chain has been replaced-not true).
5. Erased the codes.
6. Restart the car and the long cranking goes away and car runs like new.

So after this analysis, I replaced the fuel pump relay with an aftermarket solution from Parts-avatar:
https://partsavatar.ca/standard-t-series-fuel-pump-relay-ry777t

However, the problem does come back after some days and have to try whole procedure again, and it goes away

Can you advise on what might be causing this issue to reappear?

Thanks in advance Joe.

Neel

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Wednesday, April 5th, 2023 AT 12:52 PM

JACOBANDNICKOLAS

MECHANIC
109,885 POSTS

Neel,

It sounds like a connection issue. Where the relay is plugged in, is there any evidence of corrosion or do any of the connector pins in the box appear damaged or pushed further in?

When you remove the relay, it does nothing but removes the bridge to power and ground. In and of itself, that shouldn't change when the relay is reinstalled unless there is a connection issue restricting how the relay can work.

Could you let me know the codes you found before deleting them?

Let me know.

Joe

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Wednesday, April 5th, 2023 AT 7:39 PM

NEEL

MEMBER
4 POSTS

Hi Joe,

I have not seen any signs of corrosion, however, what I noticed was that there was some tiny oil or moisture (not sure) under the relays, please check the attached video - VIDEO 1

But for info, this was before, I have cleaned everything before installing the new relay

l am providing a we-transfer link as the process video is too big to attach here (this time there was only 1 code for cam shaft sensor, but sometimes the timing chain replacement codes appear)
Please notice how the long crank disappears after process- VIDEO 2

and somehow the Ventilation fans have stopped working, no AC no heat, do you think this could be linked?

I have also found out that there is a sign of 1 relay (might be fuel pump relay) getting hot, I assume this because of the mark it left on inside of the cover, this relay's location is in inside (cabin) fuse box of mini - PHOTO 1, PHOTO 2

Photo 3 - Codes
Photo 4 - Codes

Check the attachments here: https://we.tl/t-sO10Vj1Pxp

Let me know if you need anything else

Thanks in advance for your advice

Best Regards,
Neel

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Thursday, April 6th, 2023 AT 8:40 AM

JACOBANDNICKOLAS

MECHANIC
109,885 POSTS

Neel,

I tried going to the link you provided and could only get so far. See pic below. That is what I got when I agreed to their terms. How do I get to your information?

Let me know, and yes, there could be some form of electrical issue that is causing the new issues. I would really like to see the relay that appears overheated. That should only happen if there is too large of a draw or the relay is failing internally and creating more heat than normal.

Let me know.

Joe

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Thursday, April 6th, 2023 AT 10:19 PM

NEEL

MEMBER
4 POSTS

Hi Joe,

Hope you are doing good, wish you a very Good Friday.
You just need to click on download, and you'll be able to access the pics and videos. But be patient as the video size is big about 1 gb.

I have also attached the images here

Thanks in advance,
Neel

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Friday, April 7th, 2023 AT 8:10 AM

JACOBANDNICKOLAS

MECHANIC
109,885 POSTS

Hi,

I got them this time. Sorry, I didn't realize I had to hit download. Ugh! I'm getting old. LOL

I have questions. First, was it the intake camshaft position sensor that was replaced? The code is specific to that one and not the exhaust. Take a look at the description of the code below.

Now, I have a problem. If you look at pic 4 below, you'll notice that none of the U-codes are indicated for this year and model. I will tell you that U codes usually indicate an issue with the computer area network. In this case, I know the codes are related to the DME (digital motor electronics (also known as a powertrain control module).

The last pic below is from the controller area network schematic (CAN) This is where all the modules are tied together with a few wires. I need you to locate the DME and inspect the wiring and connector of the wires in the last pic.

Please understand this is a theory. But if we have a loss of communication with the DME, it can cause several different issues. However, since the codes aren't even listed for this vehicle (I'm not sure why), this is a guess. If the DME can't communicate, it could be causing a problem related to the cam sensor. Regardless, I would start with the cam sensor first to make sure it is seated properly, and the connectors are good. Also, make sure it was the intake sensor.

I hope this isn't too confusing. I've been trying to determine a possible cause, but the codes are throwing me off. That's what I'm indicating, it is a theory only.

Let me know what you find and your thoughts.

Take care and Happy Easter,

Joe

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