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1997 Honda Del Sol Clutch Knocking!

Tiny
JOEB1983
  • MEMBER
  • 1997 HONDA DEL SOL
  • 4 CYL
  • FWD
  • MANUAL
  • 88,432 MILES
Whats up! Got a little situation here. Just installed a clutch masters stage 3 Kevlar clutch in the del sol. Immediately after installing and bleeding the clutch it felt supper spongy! Way softer than stock! Went through 3 bottles of brake fluid with no change. Only have to push pedal down about a inch to shift! After driving a little over 100 miles like that I felt a vibration followed by knocking. Sounded just like rod knock actually! So I parked it. Oil pressure good. Checked fluids. All good there. Let it sit over night. Start it the next morning. Same rod knock sound. Forced it in reverse to pull out the garage and the knock got real bad with bad vibration in the clutch pedal. Go to put it in first and it wont go into gear at all. Pedal stays to the floor! Now and the clutch is stuck engaged! Still knocking. Sound is coming from the bell housing area no doubt! Clutch pedal is dead and if I force it into first it will actually start to pull forward! Put it in first with clutch pedal to the ground and try to start it and it jumps! Any input. Ever heard of this. Thanks guys!
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Sunday, June 22nd, 2008 AT 10:36 PM

14 Replies

Tiny
AIRSOFTSOLDRECN9
  • MEMBER
  • 348 POSTS
How did you bleed the air out of the slave cylinder. If you did this correctly then your slave cylinder and thrust bearing are the culprit as they usually come as an assembly. Is the clutch fluid being burned off on the pressure plate and clutch disk or is it spilling onto the ground? I also must ask: did you have the flywheel machined/deglazed and properly balanced?
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Sunday, June 22nd, 2008 AT 11:34 PM
Tiny
JOEB1983
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  • 7 POSTS
I would put the full brake fluid bottle upside down in the clutch master cylinder reservoir. Pump the clutch, hold it down. Open the slave cylinder; close it real fast and repeat over and over till there was no air and just fluid. Just as I would bleed the brakes. The flywheel was sent to a machine shop to be machined. Charged me $35.00. Someone told me it could be the throw out bearing. Said if I didn't install it correctly it would cause this problem. Could a throw out bearing cause a sound like rod knock?
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Monday, June 23rd, 2008 AT 10:36 AM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,814 POSTS
Hi Joeb1983.

My guess on the noise is the clutch release bearing is riding on the clutch cover which has its spring plates seated uneven. Improper tightening of the cover or the cover is faulty.

The pedal is another matter. Is there enough pedal to master cylinder free play?
Seems the pedal is too high and fluid is not returning to reservoir. Pedal sticks to floor because of suction after cooling down.
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Monday, June 23rd, 2008 AT 10:45 AM
Tiny
JOEB1983
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  • 7 POSTS
Thank you for the reply! Everything was aligned and torqued in the right sequence to the correct specs. Ive been hearing a lot about the throw out bearing. Could this cause a sound like rod knock?
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Monday, June 23rd, 2008 AT 11:02 AM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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  • 41,814 POSTS
Hi Joeb1983,

The bearing operation itself should not, unless it is faulty.

At slave cylinder check if the push rod is emitting the noise.
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Monday, June 23rd, 2008 AT 11:16 AM
Tiny
AIRSOFTSOLDRECN9
  • MEMBER
  • 348 POSTS
Yes the thrust/throw out bearing are almost always the reason why clutches go bad. If you are leaking fluid it is proably the thrust bearings but usually that and the slave cylinder come in an assembly. Did you not replace it with a new one?
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Monday, June 23rd, 2008 AT 3:05 PM
Tiny
JOEB1983
  • MEMBER
  • 7 POSTS
I replaced the throw out and pilot bearing. The throw out bearing mounts to a arm/lever which is pushed by the rod on the slave cylinder. No the arm was not replaced as you just install the new bearing on to it. Although I did have to take the arm off to fit the new TOB. There was some confusion with a tension/retainer clip. But I put it on the best it made sense to me as I couldn't find any pics or info on the web. I'm thinking that was why it has been so soft, and why I am where I am now... Figures 4,5,6, and 7.


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/205100_TOB_3.jpg

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+1
Monday, June 23rd, 2008 AT 4:10 PM
Tiny
AIRSOFTSOLDRECN9
  • MEMBER
  • 348 POSTS
I am sure there is a proper way to install the retainer but I am not familiar with such a device. Lets see if another tech here can answer your question; one who knows your particular setup well.
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Monday, June 23rd, 2008 AT 5:10 PM
Tiny
DOCFIXIT
  • MECHANIC
  • 18,828 POSTS
THis may sound crazy but get a big screw driver/pry bar place it between the bell housing and the fork so you can push the slave rod in. Have someone pump while you hold resistence on fork. When you feel movement hold pedal and bleed. Do this until you get full extension of the rod.
Old school
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Monday, June 23rd, 2008 AT 5:36 PM
Tiny
JOEB1983
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  • 7 POSTS
Alrighty. I will give it a shot. Any input on the knocking sound and vibration in the pedal?
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Monday, June 23rd, 2008 AT 7:25 PM
Tiny
DOCFIXIT
  • MECHANIC
  • 18,828 POSTS
KHLow2008 is right has to be TOB hitting cover but why? You say it ran about 100 m then pedal started screwing up then the knock now it's like engaged all the time. When you got the flywheel back from the machine shop where there four dowel pins in the flywheel?
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Wednesday, June 25th, 2008 AT 7:24 AM
Tiny
JOEB1983
  • MEMBER
  • 7 POSTS
Yes the flywheel has the pressure plate dowel pins. I can pull back the rubber boot that covers the the slave cylinder and release bearing arm and see that the pressure plate is still on the flywheel flush and the pins are still poking through. Yes the clutch is stuck engaged. Like I said the pedal from the get go was WAY softer than stock and engaged at the very tip top of the pedal. I'm sure there is no doubt it is something I did. Ill just have to pull l the trany and see for myself what I did wrong. My luck I will fix the clutch and still have the knock!
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Wednesday, June 25th, 2008 AT 3:20 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,814 POSTS
Hi Joeb1983,

Pull the clutch pedal up by hand and see if the slave cylinder releases the clutch.

I believe the pedal is designed with self assist when it is halfway down the stroke.

Are you sure the clutch bearing is the correct type for the clutch cover?

If the bearing has a small contact area, it might get caught between the spring plates of the clutch cover thus giving you the headache.
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Thursday, June 26th, 2008 AT 9:38 AM
Tiny
JOEB1983
  • MEMBER
  • 7 POSTS
The flywheel bolts backed out and was hitting the clutch! The infamous "Chilton" manual for 96-00 civic/del sol's; under torque specs lists the flywheel mounting bolts at 47ft. Lbs. Honda them selfs says 67ft. Lbs. Have to order new flywheel bolts and run a tap through all 6 crank threads. Its a odd size tap also. Not in any craftsman kit, etc. It is a M12-1.25 "extra" fine thread tap. So, here we are.
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Sunday, August 3rd, 2008 AT 12:08 AM

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