Function and purpose of crankshaft position sensor and two camshaft position sensors?

Tiny
ALEX STATHAS
  • MEMBER
  • 2014 NISSAN VERSA
  • 1.6L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 85,500 MILES
Hi, I was browsing the Advance Auto Parts website and I found out that my vehicle listed above SV has a crankshaft position sensor, two camshaft position sensors, as well as a knock sensor and it doesn't have a throttle position sensor, I am aware that the crankshaft position sensor and two camshaft position sensors time the four direct ignition coils to produce the high voltage spark plug electricity but what triggers the crankshaft and camshaft sensors to temporarily interrupt the flow of low voltage electricity to each ignition coil so that high voltage electricity can form or be induced? Is it a lobed trigger wheel reluctor in the crankshaft and camshafts or a toothed trigger wheel reluctor on all three of them like the toothed wheel of the long-ago distributor? I also saw on the Advance Auto Parts website that this vehicle has a knock sensor, and I am aware that a knock sensor retards ignition timing in the case of a spark knock but does it also retard ignition timing in the case of a rod knock? It's a microphone style sensor so could it sense both a spark knock and a rod knock? I also saw in the Advance Auto Parts website that no throttle position sensor is available for this vehicle, does the electronic gas pedal do the work that the throttle position sensor used to do in older cable-operated gas pedals? I also saw in the Advance Auto Parts website that just one oxygen sensor is priced at over $500 dollars in this vehicle and this vehicle has two oxygen sensors so if the oxygen sensor goes bad or awry or errant does the vehicle fail to start altogether or does it run with the check engine light on in the open loop mode? I am asking because I am noticing that the oxygen sensor is pretty expensive so I need to know whether the vehicle will fail to start if this sensor fails, or will it just run poorly? That's all folks and thank you in advance for answering my curious questions.
Saturday, February 4th, 2023 AT 3:23 AM

10 Replies

Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 13,463 POSTS
The crank and cam sensors tell the engine control unit where they are located as the engine is turning. The ECU then controls all of the rest. Unlike older vehicles that used a crank trigger or even the reluctor designs to control timing and such, that is all internal to the ECU in your vehicle. It uses driver transistors for each cylinder to control the spark and fuel by turning the grounds to each one on and off as each cylinder is in operation. The knock sensors entire job is to set there and tell the ECU if there is any detonation from a bad fuel mix or just low-grade fuel, the ECU then adjusts the timing as needed. It is a piezo type sensor and reacts to anything that produces vibrations in its detection range. A quick way to test them is to watch the timing on a scan tool and tap the engine block with a hammer and watch for the timing to change.
As for no TPS, it has two of them. They are inside the throttle body and serve as feedback to the ECU for the throttle plates position, it uses that info along with a virtually identical sensor mounted to the pedal assembly to regulate the airflow into the engine. It does not however regulate fuel flow that is done using the signals from the MAF, coolant temperature and load calculations that the ECU does.
If the O2 fails, it will depend on the failure mode. In most cases the ECU will shift from real time to substituted values and the engine will still run but not correctly and in most cases, it will reduce power. Yours also doesn't use a common O2 sensor but an air fuel ratio lambda sensor. Much more sophisticated than a common sensor that just reads the amount of unused oxygen in the exhaust. They are also not a common failure item, although one of the first things a parts store will say if you get any CEL will be, oh change the O2 sensors.
Doesn't matter what the real issue is. Same thing if you get a P0301 code, "Oh change the plugs and coils" we call it "the parts cannon" as in, load up whatever parts are in that system and change them all. The problem with that approach is that you have a code for a single cylinder misfire, so why would you change 4 coils and 4 plugs without doing some simple testing first. Say you removed the coil from cylinder 1 and swapped it with the coil on cylinder 3, takes about 10 minutes to do. Now you drive it, and the misfire is now P0303.
What does that tell you? Likely a bad coil. At the same time, you could swap the plugs from cylinders 1 and 2. Now when you drive it shows a P0302 instead, that would tell you that the plug is the issue. But you didn't just hand over a few hundred dollars for parts you likely didn't need either, so the parts store is upset.
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Saturday, February 4th, 2023 AT 10:59 AM
Tiny
ALEX STATHAS
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Wow, the reply is very informative, I didn't know there was no trigger wheel reluctor involved and that the crankshaft and camshaft position sensors were operating on transistors and I didn't know that there was no ignition module involved and that the electronic control unit did both ignition and fuel injection, I also didn't know that there were two hidden throttle position sensors inside the throttle body though I had heard about the accelerator pedal position sensor or gas pedal position sensor, also I didn't know that the two oxygen sensors were not common oxygen sensors but air fuel ratio lambda sensors that only detected unused oxygen in the exhaust, I am glad that if a sensor goes bad or awry or errant the engine will still run but perform poorly, the 9-year-old Nissan Versa is a technologically advanced wonder or miracle and I only knew about older cars, back in the 1990s I had a 1986 Mercury Lynx Wagon with a carburetor and mechanical fuel pump and the carburetor kept on stalling and being difficult to start so I am glad that if a sensor goes bad this technical wonder will still run though it will run poorly and I am glad that Florida doesn't require exhaust emissions inspections and isn't like California and all I have to do is three month interval bulk synthetic oil changes at Walmart to lubricate the engine parts, thank you very much for all that technical information that enlightened me as all I ever knew was the auto mechanics of older cars, Alexander Stathas
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Saturday, February 4th, 2023 AT 2:02 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 13,463 POSTS
The reluctor wheels are part of the cams and crank. Others use bolts on parts that have the reluctor wheels on them. But they still don't directly control the ignition. They just tell the ECU where the crankshaft is, so the ECU knows which cylinder is coming up to TDC. The cam sensors tell the ECU what the cams are doing, and which valves are open. The ECU uses the tables that are programmed into it with the various cylinder positions, injector pulse width, ignition timing, engine load and more to fire each cylinder in the proper order and then does the same thing for the next cylinder. Your vehicle is a bit behind the latest bleeding edge tech, but it still is very dependent on the technology to make it work.
If you want to spend some time you could visit YouTube and watch some of the top folks showing the things, you are asking about.
TSTseminars, ScannerDanner, Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics, New Level Auto, GoTech, DeadOnDiagnostics, ADPTraining.
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Saturday, February 4th, 2023 AT 2:26 PM
Tiny
ALEX STATHAS
  • MEMBER
  • 71 POSTS
I am a deaf mute, and I can't hear the hosts speaking on YouTube, but I can read English including I can read the technical stuff of auto mechanics, does the 2014 Nissan Versa SV have an EGR valve, differential pressure feedback EGR sensor, and EGR vacuum regulator solenoid? Does it have a charcoal canister and an evaporative canister purge solenoid? Does it have an AC pressure cycling switch? (With AC I mean air-conditioning and not alternating current from the alternator's electromagnetic poles), the reason I am asking is because I had earlier fuel-injected cars that had the above EGR components, EVP components, and AC pressure cycling switch like the 1997 Ford Escort Wagon had, Alex Stathas
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Sunday, February 5th, 2023 AT 1:23 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
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Sorry for that.
No EGR system like that, it uses the ECU and valve timing to achieve similar results.
Every vehicle made since about 1985 has a charcoal canister and some form of EVAP system. Yes, it has an AC pressure sensor system on it.
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Sunday, February 5th, 2023 AT 5:52 PM
Tiny
ALEX STATHAS
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That's okay Steve W. It has variable valve timing instead of an EGR system, I heard about variable valve timing and I saw the variable valve timing actuators in front of each camshaft on the engine diagram with variable valve timing actuators being the devices that vary valve timing with engine speed, variable valve timing is better than EGR because unlike an EGR valve, the variable valve timing actuators can't be stuck in the open position and cause a huge vacuum leak and stalling and cause the engine to run hot like the EGR valve used to do. Thank you for informing me though Mister Steve W. Because the Nissan Versa has a huge intake manifold plenum on top of the engine which obscures view of the components that you described to me in earlier replies like the two lambda oxygen sensors, crankshaft position sensor, etc, and all I can see with this huge intake manifold is the oil dipstick, the oil filter, the starter, the generator, the oil filler cap, and one ignition coil or two, thank you for informing me about the hidden obscure parts that the intake manifold hides or conceals.
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Monday, February 6th, 2023 AT 1:53 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
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I don't like to be the bearer of bad news, but VVT sprockets can stick and cause issues. It's not really common in most imports, but it can happen. These days most engines are buried under covers and have intake blocking access. I think it's one of the reasons why the service intervals for things like plugs keep getting pushed farther back. Mid 80's you did a full tune up every 40-50K, these days that has been pushed out to 100,000 on the plugs, transmission fluid and coolant that are "lifetime" and oil changes that are 10,000 or more.
The mantra is "Oh the lubricants and machine work is so much better that this is normal" The reality is that 99% of it is simply marketing BS. The companies look at the way most people trade vehicles every few years or as soon as the warranty is up and feel that as long as the vehicles make it that far it's all good. Folks like me who keep a vehicle in service for 200,000 or longer are not the normal, so we don't count.
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Monday, February 6th, 2023 AT 9:25 AM
Tiny
ALEX STATHAS
  • MEMBER
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I know it's a rare occurrence but can sticking variable valve timing sprockets cause the engine to fail to start? I looked at engine troubleshooting at the Haynes Repair Manual and it told me that only stalling and backfiring can be caused by incorrect valve clearances but not complete failure to start, and I also looked up variable valve timing on google which said that faulty variable valve timing can cause the engine valves to open and close at the wrong time and that causes drastically lower fuel economy but google didn't tell me anything about refusal to start, the dealers just want to sell you a new car and that's why they recommend delayed oil changes but I do bulk synthetic oil changes at Walmart every three months or so, thank you Steve W.
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Tuesday, February 7th, 2023 AT 12:20 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
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Generally, it won't, but like anything else, there are exceptions. A friend had a BMW that wouldn't start because it had a bad driver's side exterior door handle! I had a GM that the owner had towed in because it wouldn't start, it was because the memory fuse to the radio had failed, and it couldn't match the VIN to the key because the BCM also lost an undocumented power feed on the same fuse. As they get more complex it gets worse. That is why I tell folks new in the field to get into the electronics and diagnostics more. The mechanical part is the easy side now.
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Tuesday, February 7th, 2023 AT 7:12 AM
Tiny
ALEX STATHAS
  • MEMBER
  • 71 POSTS
I am glad that it's still running with a faulty variable valve timing system though it will run poorly, anyway we can't expect old junkers to be perfect but we should ignore the delayed oil change recommendations of the dealer and treat our old junkers to three month interval oil bulk synthetic oil changes at Walmart so that they won't seize up even if they are running poorly, in earlier posts Caradiodoc told me that three month interval bulk synthetic oil changes at Walmart are too frequent but if the old junker is running poorly then its oil is diluted and it needs more frequent bulk synthetic oil changes at Walmart, thank you Steve W.
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Tuesday, February 7th, 2023 AT 1:33 PM

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