Engine shut off while driving and will not start, code PO420

Tiny
DERRICK DOYLE
  • MEMBER
  • 2003 PONTIAC GRAND AM
  • 3.4L
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 143,000 MILES
So my car was driving driving fine, PO420 came on then went off then came back on. While I was driving the car shut off and will not start. Came back the next day the car started drove for four blocks then cut off again and has not started since. So I thought I had to do the catalytic converter but further inspection produced that I wasn't getting spark. So I changed the cam sensor, change the crank sensor, the module, the coil packs, and I'm still not getting spark. Please help me I don't know what to do.
Sunday, November 17th, 2019 AT 9:08 AM

3 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,640 POSTS
Hi:

If there is no spark and you replaced the crank and cam sensors, my next suspect is the ignition control module. The module is under the three coils. The ICM is responsible for the following:

___________________________________________

Ignition control module (ICM) and ignition coils
Three dual tower ignition coils are mounted to the ICM, and are serviced individually. The ICM performs the following functions:
- The ICM receives and processes the signals from the CKP sensor B.
- The ICM determines the correct direction of the crankshaft rotation, and cuts spark and fuel delivery to prevent damage from backfiring if reverse rotation is detected.
- The ICM determines the correct coil triggering sequence, based on the 7X CKP signal. This coil sequencing occurs at start-up, and is remembered by the ICM. After the engine is running, the ICM will continue to trigger the coils in the correct sequence.
- The ICM produces and inputs 3X reference signals to the PCM.
- The ICM contains the coil driver circuits that command the coils to operate.

___________________________________________

Now, what I suggest is to remove the module and have it tested. Most nationally recognized parts stores are able to do this and will for free.

___________________________________________

Here are the directions for removal and replacement. However, in addition to this, I strongly recommend having the converter issue resolved. If it is plugging, it will cause power loss and can cause internal engine damage.

__________________________________________

2003 Pontiac Grand AM V6-3.4L VIN E
Procedures
Vehicle Powertrain Management Relays and Modules - Powertrain Management Relays and Modules - Ignition System Ignition Control Module Service and Repair Procedures
PROCEDURES
REMOVAL PROCEDURE

pic 1

1. Disconnect all the electrical connectors at the ignition control module.
2. Note position of spark plug wires for installation and disconnect the spark plug wires from ignition coils.
3. Remove the screws securing coil assemblies to ignition control module.
4. Disconnect the coils from ignition control module.
5. Remove the ignition control module from the bracket.

INSTALLATION PROCEDURE
1. Install the ignition control module on the bracket.

Pic 2

2. Install the coils to ignition control module.
3. Install the screws.

NOTE: Refer to Fastener Notice in Service Precautions.

Tighten
Tighten the screws to 4.5 N.M (40 lb in).

4. Connect the spark plug wires as noted during removal.
5. Connect the electrical connectors to the ignition control module.

_____________________________________________________

Let me know what you find or if you have other questions.

Take care,
Joe
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Sunday, November 17th, 2019 AT 8:13 PM
Tiny
DERRICK DOYLE
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
So after changing the ignition control module I try to start the car did not start again so I went and took a look at the fuses and noticed that fuse number 41 which is the ignition module fuse was blew so I changed it from a number 10 to a number 15 fuse the car started then after running at an idle for about 2 minutes it shut off again put out the fuse put a 20 in the car started again after noticing the car was running for about 5 minutes I pressed on the gas the car shut off again so I put in a 25 fuse did the same thing it blew then after putting a 30 fuse in I begin to smell smoke and noticed that the smoke was coming under the wire harness and that my coil number one was producing fluid after doing this I shut the car off the wire began to burn so much I noticed how to trace the wire the trace the wires to the fuse box it was a wire that was under fuse 41 I don't know why but it was beginning to set fire so I'm starting to think I have a ground issue but I don't know where the ground goes to so far the wire that begin to start on fire lead to the ignition control module on the opposite side of the crank
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Tuesday, November 19th, 2019 AT 2:03 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,640 POSTS
Hi,

It was starting to burn because the fuse you installed was too strong for the wiring to handle. Fuse amperage is based on the gauge (thickness) of the wire it supplies power to. The smaller the wire, the less power it can handle. By putting a much larger fuse in place of a small one, you allowed more power to flow through the wire before the fuse would blow. The smaller wire has too much resistance for larger amounts of power. Hence, the 10 amp fuse. Resistance causes heat which caused the problem. I'm just glad you weren't hurt and it didn't catch fire. Never exceed the manufacturer's recommend amperage for fuse replacement. Fuse amperage is determined based on the gauge of wire they power.

The most likely cause of the fuse blowing is because there is a short somewhere in the system. That is a point where the power from the fuse is grounding, causing too much of a power draw for the fuse and it to blows.

Now here is what I need you to do. First, disconnect the negative terminal from the battery. Next, unplug the ICM. Once battery power is gone and the ICM is disconnected, I need you to check the pink wire at the ICM for continuity to ground. The wire is pink in color.

There should not be continuity to ground, so if there is, that means the wire is shorted to ground at some point. At that point, either replace the wire or trace it for damage to the insulation on it which is allowing the copper wire to touch something metal.

Here are a few links to help:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-voltmeter

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-wiring

Also, if you could upload a pic of where the smoke was coming from and any damage to wiring, it may help. I hate to say this, but it also sounds like you damaged both the coil and new ICM. However, since the fuse was blown, the original ICM may still be good.

I attached two pics. The first is the fuse box. I am just confirming I have the correct fuse you are referring to. The second shows the wiring. I have an arrow pointing to where the power from fuse 41 goes to the ICM. The pink wire is the one needing checked.

Let me know what you find or if you have questions. Please be careful. Although a car battery in and of itself can not shock you, it most certainly can cause fires.

I will watch for your reply.

Take care,
Joe
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Tuesday, November 19th, 2019 AT 6:53 PM

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