Blown fuse

Tiny
JOEDOKES
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  • 1961 CHEVROLET BISCAYNE
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • MANUAL
  • 100,000 MILES
Just bought car (actually 1938 Studebaker.) Car had amateur restoration, rewired by owner. Brake light fuse blown, and replacement immediately blown. Ohm meter shows continuity to ground from downstream side of brake light switch on master cylinder, and continuity between brake and tail light leads in light sockets on rear of car, with the bulbs out. Both tail light and brake light wires in the sockets show continuity to ground, individually, and to each other. Wondering where to start looking. Nothing visual underneath from transporting chains, and seller said he never had any problems. I thought I saw the tail lights burning when having car inspected, but have not tried them again after seemingly finding short or continuity between brake light and tail light systems. Likely places to start search?
Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 AT 7:21 AM

12 Replies

Tiny
PATENTED_REPAIR_PRO
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Which is it, a 1961 Chevrolet Biscayne or a 1938 Studebaker?
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Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 AT 8:58 AM
Tiny
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It is a 1938 Studebaker. The 1961 Chevrolet was used to get into the website. The menu offered us went back to only 1961, and Studebaker was not offered as a choice, and there were no blanks for anything not in the menu offered. I stated it was actually a Studebaker right off the bat, not realizing more explanation was needed. I used the 1961 Chevrolet Biscayne because I thought it would be the simplest, most straightforward example of what the Studebaker is, a very simple wiring diagram. Hope this is clears it up. Forgot to mention, the lights and ignition have been changed to twelve volts, 1157 bulbs in rear. There is also a license plate light and a trunk light tied to the tail light wiring, and I think, a third brake light on the deck lid, which my first thought now will be to disconnect these last three (third brake light, trunk light, and license plate light) and see result with the short/ground. JoeDokes
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Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 AT 9:21 AM
Tiny
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The first thing to do would be to find a wiring diagram and none of the online access repair manuals that I use have something that old.
Would you happen to have one?
Also, you never mentioned which model Studebaker this was.
I was not aware that a brake light switch was on the master cylinder.
There is only one website that I know might have it, so let me check there. http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/
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Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 AT 1:02 PM
Tiny
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No luck.
If you updated the wiring anyhow, I doubt then if the original wiring would be accurate now anyhow.
Remove the fuse, remove all the bulbs, then check again for a short to ground on the backend of that fuse socket. If the light switch is down line from the fuse disconnect it and test again. Make sure you remove all the bulbs, too, the brake, tail, license, backup as well as any interior lights.
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Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 AT 1:31 PM
Tiny
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You may be able to insert an automatic resetting circuit breaker into that fuse socket then with all the bulbs in check to see if one or more do not work, then it may help you narrow down the circuit that is shorted.
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Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 AT 1:32 PM
Tiny
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Thank you. Previous owner rewired to 12 volts and did furnish a very rough wiring sketch, which I don't think included the lights other than showing light switch being fed off amp meter. He did a pretty neat job, labeling, but with masking tape, which is now about 20 years old and tattered. I made an error when I said there was a short between brakes and tail lights; my mistake was not noting the license plate light and third brake light bulbs being left in when checking continuity, and now guessing the filaments were the connection between the two, and to ground. Removing those last two bulbs, I could NOT find short to ground anywhere. Putting a new 10 amp fuse in, it blew immediately upon first application of brake pedal. I know better but put a 15 amp fuse in, and for the very short time I tried it, all(I think) three brake lights worked and fuse did not blow. I'm not sure if the 15 amp fuse is too large and may not protect the wiring if there is a short that I didn't detect, or if a 10 amp fuse is too small for three 1157 bulbs? Also, wondering if the brake light switch on the master cylinder could be defective and maybe shorting when pedal is pushed? I have never replaced a brake light switch for being defective, actually never replaced a brake light switch for any reason, but I understand they're inexpensive, and they're not difficult to reach. But, I have never been a mechanic; a year of auto mechanics in high school in 1960, but haven't kept up much since. Any idea on size of fuse needed for the three bulbs? I will probably replace the switch on the master cylinder just to eliminate any possibility there. I'm thinking that the brake lights are the only thing on the fuse but will try to trace out and check with previous owner to see if he remembers. Thanks so very much for your help here. Wish you all the very best Christmas. Regards, JoeDokes
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Sunday, December 24th, 2017 AT 1:06 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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Hi guys. Please allow me to add a couple of comments of value that might make this easier. The brighter filament in an 1157 bulb draws very close to one amp, so three would draw three amps. A ten-amp fuse would be fine as it has more than a twenty percent safety margin. A 15-amp fuse will not cause a problem here because you most likely have 14 gauge wires, and they can handle 15 amps continuously. Brake lights are only used intermittently.

Even better than an auto-resetting circuit breaker, take one of the blown fuses, solder about a three-foot piece of wire to each end, then solder the other ends to the two terminals of another 1157 or 3157 bulb so you're using the brighter filament. Be quick when soldering to the fuse. Too much heat for too long will melt the glue, then the metal caps will slide off. If your rewire job uses the newer spade-type fuses, grind off enough of the plastic so you can solder to the tops of the two terminals. You can also just use a pair of universal crimp-type terminals, and plug them in individually in place of the blown fuse.

When the circuit is turned on and the short is present, the test bulb will simply be full brightness. It will naturally get hot too, so do not let it lay against door panels and carpet. Now you can take your time and unplug stuff and move wires around to see what makes the short go away. When it does, the 12 volts will divide up between the test bulb and those in the circuit, so the test bulb will become dimmer or go out.

As a thought of places to look, we used to see a lot of chewed-up trailer wiring harnesses. If you have that on the car, check for frayed brake, tail light, and ground wires shorted together. If you have an older U-Haul harness with three red leds in the connector to show at a glance which circuit is for which wire, it was real common for those plugs to become shorted internally.

Also, look closely at an aftermarket third brake light assembly. Some of them have one terminal connected to a mounting screw hole to provide the ground, but it is possible to connect your 12 volt feed wire to that, then run a ground wire from the other terminal. That will put a dead short on the brake light circuit until that housing is unbolted from any sheet metal. Part of the body.

I have not thought this through yet, but do not overlook a shorted or incorrect turn signal switch if the same rear bulb is used for the brake light and the turn signal function.
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Sunday, December 24th, 2017 AT 5:20 PM
Tiny
JOEDOKES
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Caradiodoc, thanks so much for your help here. Great idea with the bulb. I have a bulb with a couple of leads with alligator clips that I can put a couple spade terminals in, to accomplish this, I think. Used this bulb across ignition points(old days) to set ignition timing, and it is still in the tool box. A separate turn signal light (LED, I think) was installed below the stock lights, with its own wiring, but not connected to anything yet, so it is not in this picture. I will have to procure a switch for the steering column to complete that assembly, in the future, with its own separate fuse, guessing 10 amp for that also. That wiring looks smaller, maybe 16 or 18 gauge.

Hoping to be able to visit my step dad today with this old Studebaker. He has talked of learning to drive in a Terraplane, and mentions Erskine and Essex cars, often. He is ninety six years old, and lives only a couple miles from here so traffic should be light today, and weather is sunny(but cold, forties, and no heater in the Studebaker, but the car itself should warm his heart!) Wish I could send a picture of it; will try to get kids to show me how. Wishing you all, all of you at 2carpros. Com, a very blessed Christmas and thanks so much once more for everything!

Regards, JoeDokes
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Monday, December 25th, 2017 AT 5:32 AM
Tiny
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First remove all three of the brake light bulbs, then see if the fuse blows as soon as you press on the brake pedal. If so and you had no continuity to ground on that circuit then perhaps it is a shorted brake light switch.
If the fuse does not blow, put the bulbs back in one at a time to at least narrow it down to which bulb circuit it is. Then inspect that circuit for a shorted wire.
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Monday, December 25th, 2017 AT 6:15 AM
Tiny
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Sounds like a very good approach. Thanks so much, again, for all your time and consideration, and Merry Christmas to you and all of yours! Regards, JoeDucks
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Monday, December 25th, 2017 AT 8:59 AM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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Question, is the turn signals on this oldie but goodie work on the same filament as the brake lights? If it does, do the turn signals work?

Roy
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Monday, December 25th, 2017 AT 9:51 AM
Tiny
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No the turn signals are on their own dedicated wiring and bulbs, and not yet connected. Thanks for your thoughts on this. JoeDokes
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Tuesday, December 26th, 2017 AT 6:07 AM

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